.357 Mag SAAMI pressure levels

[44MAG#1]

It answers the question for me, because I feel fine carrying a .357Sig for SD, but not so much the 9mm.
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I have a 3” .357 Mag and a 3.9” .357Sig. The recoil of the Sig is substantially more manageable, the longer barrel is very helpful, and I’m getting more power out of my hand loads in the Sig. My revolver is not a Ruger, so I’m definitely staying under the 35ksi SAAMI limit. The manufacturer of my revolver told me that 158g bullets is the heaviest they tested. I have a few more powder and bullet combinations to test, but I’m starting to think the Mag is not a meaningful step up from the Sig… if I convince myself of that I’ll have to sell this revolver and get something stronger with a longer barrel. The biggest gain from the Mag over the Sig is concealabilty, when it should be power.
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If I could use 180 grain bullets at 45,000 cup, I would not be wondering if I ought to sell this particular revolver. I probably ought to get a 6” GP100 and sell my current revolver.
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As far as going to .44 Mag goes - I tend to run, climb boulders, carry kids in my shoulders, and take dogs through the woods. Confidence in a 45,000 cup revolver for a black bear surprise would be much more helpful than a large .44. The .44’s I have my eyes on come with barrels in the 8” range.

A nice S&W M629 4 inch 44 Mag is nice. Real nice. It is a step up.

[dvnv]

Let me restate my previous statement and see if anyone can add their ideas on it.
"From a practical standpoint I look at it this way.
Let's say I am using X ammo with 158 gr HP bullets loaded to 35,000 CUP would the same bullet loaded in X ammo to 45,000 CUP would the higher pressure load turn the 357 Magnum from a Whitetail gun into a Grizzly Bear gun? Would it turn a mediocre shot into a good shot and a good shot into an excellent shot?
Are we worrying too much about so called pressure changes?"

Velocity has its advantages. If not there would not have been a 357 mag in the first place. How much each increment up matters is arguable, but the fact that a 357 is more than a 38 isn't.
Put the 357 in a rifle and there is another large step up. Up to the re-loader to decide on his own tradeoffs between pressure, bullet, velocity, recoil, etc...Arguing minutia is, well, arguing minutia.

[44MAG#1]

Velocity has its advantages. If not there would not have been a 357 mag in the first place. How much each increment up matters is arguable, but the fact that a 357 is more than a 38 isn't.
Put the 357 in a rifle and there is another large step up. Up to the re-loader to decide on his own tradeoffs between pressure, bullet, velocity, recoil, etc...Arguing minutia is, well, arguing minutia.

Worrying over minutia is, well, worrying over minutia.

[376Steyr]

Worrying over minutia is, well, worrying over minutia.

Worrying over minutia is what keeps these threads going!

[44MAG#1]

Worrying over minutia is what keeps these threads going!

Minutia is, well, minutia and we all have be minutiated at times.
Where would we be without minutia?

[justindad]

Minutia is, well, minutia and we all have be minutiated at times.
Where would we be without minutia?

I’d be doing the dishes. I like this better. Oh no… am I turning into a cell phone zombie?

[Larry Gibson]

Let me put it this way.

I've already addressed the "grizz" situation so I'll speak of lessor game such as deer whereby I might hunt them with a 357 Magnum. With any cartridge I may hunt game animals with I do not "load down". I will be able to shoot accurately and comfortably with full power loads to hunt with. If I cannot shoot them accurately I will use another cartridge/firearm that I can shoot accurately and comfortably with. If using a 300 Win Mag I expect 300 Win Mag performance, not 30-06 performance. If I wanted a 30-06 performance, I would use a 30-06 and not "dumb down" the 300 Win Mag. Same with a 357 Magnum handgun when hunting game. I expect 357 Magnum performance, not 38 SPL +P or even 38-44 performance.

I agree, within normal handgun ranges for me [less than 100 yards, preferably less than 50 yards] the extra 150 - 200 fps (1350 fps) a 35,000 psi load gives may not kill a white tail deer any deader than a 25-28,000 psi (1100 - 1200 fps) load. However, it may kill the deer quicker which for me is important.

Again, if I'm hunting game such as deer with a 357 Magnum revolver such as my 6" Ruger Security Six then I expect it to perform at full bore 357 Magnum level. That means an appropriate load the develops 35,000 psi. Where I would hunt deer with the 357 Magnum revolver the most dangerous animal I'd likely run into would be a miscreant. A 358156 cast of 16-1 and HP'd at 1350 fps will handle one of those or more with aplomb. I f hunting with a revolver in BB country I would opt for my 41 or 44 Magnum. And with either of those the loads would be top end 35-36,000 psi loads for expected maximum .

[44MAG#1]

I never heard dumbing down the 357 Mag to 38 Special levels in the thread.
Maybe a few thousand CUP or PSI. Whichever is ones cup of tea.

[dvnv]

"Worrying over minutia is, well, worrying over minutia."

My point exactly.

[gwpercle]

Worrying over minutia is what keeps these threads going!

Are we "Picking Nits " again ?
Gary

[Stacts]

Are we "Picking Nits " again ?
Gary

Speak for yourself. I keep nicking pits...

[44MAG#1]

Speak for yourself. I keep nicking pits...

Nits get picked on many threads and most forums. That is what keeps most forums and threads going.

[racepres]

Lets do this...just for fun...
My 357 Blue dot under a 140 Speer JHP, came from the hot end of an old "Ruger or Contender Only" Page...
My records show that the Next Accuracy Node was very mild indeed...low 38/44 territory.. Should I decide to slay some more woodchucks/possums/skunks... I prefer they Die On the Spot... Someone once said...Use enough Gun...
So...if I neuter my 357, I should Use my 308 on virtually everything????
Nah...I'm sticking with the loads I been using for 30-40 years...Thanks...The New, SAAMI, don't affect Me.
I still say it is MFG's looking after the Weakest Component/Product!!!

BTW lest we be quick to Condemn...I also shoot some very mild loads indeed in my 44Mag Contender... I don't like to be beat up either!!!
Same critters go Tits Up with authority with that ole ...Mild, 44 Mag also...

[Larry Gibson]

I never heard dumbing down the 357 Mag to 38 Special levels in the thread.
Maybe a few thousand CUP or PSI. Whichever is ones cup of tea.

Thought you were talking about reducing 45,000 CUP down to 28,000 CUP in the 357 Magnum cartridge? If so, that is a 38% drop in pressure as measured via CUP. That, to me anyway, is "dumbing down". You may call your cup of tea something else but that much pressure drop in the 357 magnum case will put it down in the 38 SPL 38-44 level which then is dumbing down the 357 magnum.

Why don't you just come out and say what your point is instead of asking for input then criticizing the input?

[44MAG#1]

Thought you were talking about reducing 45,000 CUP down to 28,000 CUP in the 357 Magnum cartridge? If so, that is a 38% drop in pressure as measured via CUP. That, to me anyway, is "dumbing down". You may call your cup of tea something else but that much pressure drop in the 357 magnum case will put it down in the 38 SPL 38-44 level which then is dumbing down the 357 magnum.

Why don't you just come out and say what your point is instead of asking for input then criticizing the input?

You know what I am getting at.
I posted the load data as an example.
Is the 38-44 REALLY a 38 Special simply because it is in a 38 Special case?
So me loading 38 Special cases with 13.5 grains of 2400 and a 173 "Keith" is it REALLY a 38 Special used in my GP100?

[racepres]

^^ Is it Potato, or Potato??? Arguing for the sake of Argument is just....Arguing
or...Maybe I don't get it????
BTW 38/44 is Not 38 SPL nor is it 357 Magnum, it was created WHEN the Gun was Introduced!! The Gun itself...once again...is Key!!... Like the Original Magnum Handgun... something noticeably (measurably) More Powerful!!
Now Lessened, by???? Lesser Guns???

[RyanJames170]

From my understanding in some reading I did a few years ago that the pressure was lowered on 357 mag due to issues with K frame revolvers, I don’t remember where I read it other then it was by a guy who was involved in the decrease in pressure, iirc it was about the time the L 686 revolvers same time Smith and Wesson came up with the 586 and 686. I will try and find the article and post a link

[racepres]

From my understanding in some reading I did a few years ago that the pressure was lowered on 357 mag due to issues with K frame revolvers, I don’t remember where I read it other then it was by a guy who was involved in the decrease in pressure, iirc it was about the time the L 686 revolvers same time Smith and Wesson came up with the 586 and 686. I will try and find the article and post a link

Be very careful
If you dare knock the Vaunted S&W Empire... you will be Haunted relentlessly...
tho to be sure, S&W was absolutely Not, the only Weaker design..Why oh why would anyone desert, circumvent, ... the N model S&W????
Yup
$$$$$

[dogdoc]

I think the original poster was referring to the possibility that some of the old 357 mag loads that measured 45000 cup on the old copper crusher method (which would have been fine back in the day)may measure greater than 35000 psi if measured on newer psi equipment. Hence some of those older loads would not be used today since most ammo makers or reloading manuals use psi today in their measurements and not cup. I believe this to be the case.
Dogdoc

[racepres]

I think the original poster was referring to the possibility that some of the old 357 mag loads that measured 45000 cup on the old copper crusher method (which would have been fine back in the day)may measure greater than 35000 psi if measured on newer psi equipment. Hence some of those older loads would not be used today since most ammo makers or reloading manuals use psi today in their measurements and not cup. I believe this to be the case.
Dogdoc

Long story short, I was in the gun store the other day talking to an older gentlemen who said that SAAMI lowered the MAP for .357 magnum several decades ago in response to the ultra-lightweight revolvers coming out not being sufficiently sturdy to survive the ammunition.

Is there any truth to this? What year did this change occur? What was the original pressure specification?


The OP specifically stated that a Shop Owner told him that the SAMMI changed due to Changing (perhaps weaker) firearms.
Question was 3 fold..True info from shop owner?? Hotly debated!! When??? awhile Back... What was the spec??? Noted what was...and what Is..