Pythons and accuracy

[txbirdman]

Cha Gar, your experience mirror’s mine. I had a 6” stainless Python and a 6” S&W 27-2 at the same time many years ago. Having no real need for both I decided to do a “shoot off” and keep the more accurate of the 2. The 27-2 is still in my safe and the Python is long gone.

[rintinglen]

My own experience runs counter to those of CharGar and the Txbirdman. My first Blue Python was the most accurate factory revolver I have ever owned. It was no exaggeration to say that the S&W M-27-2 and the Ruger Security Six I owned then shot rings around the groups shot by the Python.

Alas, that happy state did not last. By the time I had 5,000 rounds through it, it was spitting like a redneck chewing tobacco. I had it re-timed, and it lasted about 6,000 rounds before it got sold and I bought a Bill Wilson M-10 PPC gun. That gun shot as well as the Python, maybe a smidge better, but it was not factory. I have three Pythons now, but they don't get shot much. I run to lighter guns now.

[M-Tecs]

Back in the PPC days (before custom barrel makers started production PPC barrels) Smolts/Smythons were very common. Smolts/Smythons are a Python barrels installed on a S&W frames. Once the barrel makers produced viable options Smolts became a thing of the past for two reasons. Accuracy and weight of the custom barrels better for PPC. Pythons had a taper bore/twist that claimed to increase accuracy particularly with wadcutters.

I've owned 3 Pythons. I currently own zero Pythons but I still own a bunch of S&W's.

One of my Pythons was incredibly accurate. The other two were "average" by S&W standards. The accurate one was bright nickel. If it would have been blued, I probably would still have it. Bright nickel is not my thing. Brushed nickel or brushed SS is fine with me but high luster chrome look not so much.

[Tatume]

As M-Tec notes, the accuracy of Python and OMM revolvers was partly attributed to rifling twist rate when shooting wadcutters. I like my OMM very much.

NRA Shooting Illustrated: https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...barrel-twists/

In taking a look at Precision Pistol Competition (PPC), where the .38 Spl. revolver still reigns with the 148-grain hollow-base wadcutters as the ammunition of choice, accuracy at 50 yards is an absolute necessity. In the early days of the sport, the 1:18.75-inch twist rate of Smith & Wesson revolvers gave way to the 1:14-inch twist of Colt revolvers at 50 yards. This was because the long, slow-moving wadcutters were sometimes showing signs of instability as they passed through the long-distance targets.

Some enterprising competitors installed Colt Python barrels on their Smith & Wesson revolvers to get the best accuracy at 50 yards, thus creating what was known as a Smython or Smolt. Custom barrel makers started making 1:14-inch bull barrels for PPC competition, which worked well in getting the long wadcutters to fly straight and cut clean holes in the long-line targets. Some gunsmiths opted for even tighter twist rates of 1:12-inch and 1:10-inch, which worked as well as the 1:14-inch barrels, but the advantage was usually in the shooter, not the barrel.

[M-Tecs]

As M-Tec notes, the accuracy of Python and OMM revolvers was partly attributed to rifling twist rate when shooting wadcutters. I like my OMM very much.

NRA Shooting Illustrated: https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...barrel-twists/

Thanks for the additional details. The Colt Officers Model Match is a bucket list revolver of mine.

https://coltfever.com/officers-model/

Timely post here https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...-Based-Boolits

Practical experience and empirical testing don't disappoint. S&W .38 Special revolvers with 18-3/4" twist of rifling show noticeable yaw in bullet holes firing wadcutter ammunition from 2 inch barrels. The 6-inch K-38 is accurate to 50 yards, but deteriorates beyond that. A Colt Python or Officer's Model Match with 14" twist is clearly better beyond 50 yards.

But a Bob Day PPC revolver using a 10-inch twist 9mm barrel will group factory match wadcutters well to 100 yards. Bill Duncan wrote several articles in The Fouling Shot testing various HB and DEWC .38 Special bullets at 100 yards, the best loads maintaining 3-4 inch groups.

[Tatume]

Thanks for the additional details. The Colt Officers Model Match is a bucket list revolver of mine.

Mine is the Fifth Issue, which has the best sights and grips, in my opinion.

[txbirdman]

My own experience runs counter to those of CharGar and the Txbirdman. My first Blue Python was the most accurate factory revolver I have ever owned. It was no exaggeration to say that the S&W M-27-2 and the Ruger Security Six I owned then shot rings around the groups shot by the Python.

Alas, that happy state did not last. By the time I had 5,000 rounds through it, it was spitting like a redneck chewing tobacco. I had it re-timed, and it lasted about 6,000 rounds before it got sold and I bought a Bill Wilson M-10 PPC gun. That gun shot as well as the Python, maybe a smidge better, but it was not factory. I have three Pythons now, but they don't get shot much. I run to lighter guns now.

My comparison was based on 2 specific revolvers and Ihave no doubt the opposite results could occur given different guns. I will say that I wish I could buy that Python back for the amount I sold it for and then resell it in today’s market. As an investment I made a poor choice but I’m still happy with the S&W.

[black mamba]

I never had a Python as the wildly flared grips never fit my hand. I was fortunate enough to have handled a couple early ones, and they were just so darn smooth, but I have no idea how accurate they were. My most accurate is a Smith 629 Classic in 44 mag.

[md8232]

I bought a new 4.25” Python this week. Looking at it with my borescope I see what looks like chatter around the lands starting 2” in from the muzzle and going back 1”.
I’ll call Colt on Monday to see what they want to do about it.

[nicholst55]

It seems that more than one manufacturer has a test range that is only 15 yards, mostly due to space constraints.

[md8232]

I bought a new 4.25” Python this week. Looking at it with my borescope I see what looks like chatter around the lands starting 2” in from the muzzle and going back 1”.
I’ll call Colt on Monday to see what they want to do about it.

Update, I spoke with Mike Heffron about this and he explained what I saw.
Not a big problem and I got to fire 50 rounds today.
Back to my backyard range tomorrow.

The Python is enjoyable, my shooting needs some work.

[Tatume]

Update, I spoke with Mike Heffron about this and he explained what I saw.

Please share.

[45workhorse]

I can get all 6 in the same hole with my Colt SAA 45...I just can't get a proof picture of the target! ...

And, I thought I was the only one that had that problem.

[dverna]

I agree with those who ridicule accuracy testing at 15 yards. If that is all you need, buy a Glock and save a bunch of money. (BTW I love my Glocks).

50 yards is where things get interesting.

As to twist rates, I had a M52 S&W Bullseye gun, and had a 1-10 twist Douglas barrel sleeved in it. At 50 yards it made about a 1/2" difference in groups. Actually, not sure if it was the faster twist or a better barrel. That gun would shoot!!!

[apen]

I bought one earlier this year. I shot some 140 XTPs at 50 yards the other day and it seems to shoot pretty good. It needs a solid black sight for target shooting though I think. I casted some Lee 148 WCs to load in .357 cases but haven’t gotten around to loading them yet. I was going to send it off to heffron for a trigger job but see he created some additional hoops to jump through with shipping so I’ll not be doing that.

[Longfellow]

Well, a year and another Bullseye season gone since I asked about accuracy of this gun, and I haven't seen one new Python in any of the Harry Reeves, Service Revolver or DR matches; the firing line is still crowded with 14's, including mine. Add to this that there always seems to be one or more workmanship issues with just about every new firearm these days. Here, I would have liked to hear more about the machining "chatter" that one guy here experienced and also hear Heffron's reply. I haven't bought a brand new gun for any of the Bullseye stages, in ten years. I've come close, as I have with this new Python, but there appears to be too little quality control today. Good for pistolsmiths I guess. FYI in a 1960 issue of AR (about six years in to Python manufacture) there is an article in which a dozen or so top Bullseye shooters were asked about their respective equipment. For NRA centerfire, of those not using their 45's, there was one Python shooter and about three shooters using model 14's and an equal number using converted 38 supers. I think I'll just keep my money in the bank; there's little chance it seems that this new revolver will significantly reduce the 3.5 inch groups I'm currently getting out of my 14-3 at fifty yards (Ransom Rest). Thank you all for this lively exchange.

[dogdoc]

My new pythons are barrel chatter free but my new 6 inch anaconda has barrel chatter. I send the first on back and received another. The new one still has some chatter but not as bad. Catch is that it is a tack driver with no significant leading so I keep it. I still think the could do better especially for the price. My smiths do not have chatter.

[Longfellow]

Well it was only two months ago that I said I will likely never get one of these but two things happened which address the two concerns I have. Mike Herron posted a new entry in his blog that compared the accuracy of three revolvers; one of which was a new Python. He Ransom Rested them at 100 yards and the python came in at under two inches. It had his action job done so we don't really know how much of that work contributed to the incredible performance. The other thing was the introduction of the carbon steel / blued model. Now I'd like to find a smith for my new six inch Python who does NOT have a 1.5 year backlog. I've worked too hard on trigger control of my Bullseye guns, which all have 2.5 and 3.5pound triggers to ruin that muscle memory with a 6-7 pound trigger on this thing. Other than NVGW and C&S, and of course Herron, can anyone recommend a pistol smith who knows these new revolvers? If not I'm happy to shoot it left handed until I come up in Heffron's queue. Thanks.

[charlie b]

I never knew how lucky I was to have a decent gunsmith most my years, in two different towns. One died and the other retired. Then I found out how rare the good ones are.