LSWC and shavings?

[Jal5]

New guy here, looks like a good place to hang out!
I am relatively new to reloading and tried reloading 38spl today using Dardas cast bullets, 158gr. LSWC. I noticed they seated with a little more resistance than the XTP/HP type bullet and left a very slight ring of shaving mixed with lube at the crimping cannelure around some of the cartridges. I tried expanding some of them a little more by running them thru the expander die again but that made very little difference.

Will this affect accuracy? The head of the bullet is a flat top not HP and it is intact not marked up at all. Should I expand the case mouth even more in the future? I guess about 1/3 of the cartridges showed this shaving. Some of the cases took the bullet fine and I thought the slight variation in case mouth size and bullet base size might account for that?

Thanks for any help,
Joe

[buck1]

Yep just expand enugh to prevent those shavings and you should be good. But just enugh, not too much or you will shorten brass life with split case mouths!
WELCOME ABORD!

[buck1]

They are most likely slightly larger than the J bullets, What size are ther sized to and what size are your cylinders throats?

[454PB]

Welcome to the forum, you'll love it here.

Did you seat and crimp the boolits at the same time? This is usually the cause of shaving. The case mouth is beginning to close in on the boolit as it reaches the crimp groove and shaves a little lead. The cure is to seat and crimp in two separate operations.

The cases should be belled enough so that the cast boolit will just start into the case without touching the inner edge of the mouth. Over belling will cause as many problems as under belling. What diameter are the boolits?

[Reloader06]

Welcome to the forum.

As stated above expand the case mouth just a bit more. Part of the "extra" resistance might be that the lead boolits are .001-.002" larger diameter than the XTPs and squeezing into the brass. I also had that problem starting out when I tried seating and crimping in a single operation. Made it 2 steps and it reduced the problem greatly. Hope this helps.

Matt

[GrizzLeeBear]

You need to flare the case mouth a little, not just expand the case. What expanding die are you using? The Lee Universal expanding die or the Lyman M-die will flare the mouth a little more than what a regular expanding die that comes with a set of dies will do. This will allow a slightly larger dia. cast boolit slip into the case easier and without shaving lead.

[Jal5]

I compared the XTPs and the SWC and they both are .356 by my measurement. The cast bullet is supposed to be .38 SWCBB 158gr .357 as stamped on the package. I measured some of the cases I didn't load that were in that same batch of cases and they actually measured .352-.354 at the inside of the mouth so that accounts for the variance and the resistance to these cast bullets.

I wasn't crimping with the seating operation, just seating. The expander die though is a "mystery" with no markings on it I can see at all except designated 38 on the top. It was part of a mixed set I picked up along with a Lee decapper and Pacific seater. Here is a pic of it if anyone can identify it.

The gun I am loading for is a S&W 66-2 revolver.

Joe

[Hang Fire]

I compared the XTPs and the SWC and they both are .356 by my measurement. The cast bullet is supposed to be .38 SWCBB 158gr .357 as stamped on the package. I measured some of the cases I didn't load that were in that same batch of cases and they actually measured .352-.354 at the inside of the mouth so that accounts for the variance and the resistance to these cast bullets.

I wasn't crimping with the seating operation, just seating. The expander die though is a "mystery" with no markings on it I can see at all except designated 38 on the top. It was part of a mixed set I picked up along with a Lee decapper and Pacific seater. Here is a pic of it if anyone can identify it.

The gun I am loading for is a S&W 66-2 revolver.

Joe

Looks like RCBS

[Jal5]

Don't think it is an RCBS at least it does not compare to the other ones I have by RCBS, the outside part of the die is a lighter metal, almost looks aluminum than RCBS uses on theirs.

I shot those 38spl today with the LSWC. It was a good feeling to see that I can actually make bullets and they work!

Now I need to evaluate the data. I had 5 sets of 4 each, using Unique, WSP primer, range brass, starting at 3.8gr to 4.2 gr. Max. load was either 4.2 or 4.3 in all the books. The COL was between 1.480-1.490
I had to use a two hand hold without sandbag due to the situation at the range and the frozen ground!

My 3rd target was the most consistent pattern, 2 in the 9 ring, 1 in the 10 ring all three were 1.25" group and the 4th one I pulled on a straight line to the right by about 3". Target #2 had two touching in the 9 ring but the other 2 were way high and way low off the rings altogether. All were at 20yds paced off.

Does it make sense to load some more experimenting with the powder wgt. Target #2 = 3.9gr and Target #3=4.0gr. and see how consistent I can get with those? With this small amount of powder I loaded each set 0.1gr different: 3.8, 3.9, etc. I am weighing each one for this load development.

I might try shooting these off of sticks, at least that would give me some consistent rest rather than shooting offhand!

Joe

[looseprojectile]

I had a revelation last night.
Was seating Saeco 200 grain SWC boolits in .45 auto.
Was getting the lube and lead shavings at the mouth of the case.
Upon further investigation I found the culprit.
The seating die, obviously, was made to seat jacketed bullets.
The die removed the bell as soon as the case entered the seating die at which point the case started to shave lead.
Seating die is too small in inside diameter.
I was fortunate to have some spare dies and switched to a different seating die that is larger in inside diameter and problem solved.
I have experienced this,[shaving lead] lots of times when seating boolits and had never thought of why, or how to eliminate it.
Jal5 brought this problem up here and it was fresh in my mind when I had the same thing happen to me.
I think a larger die is needed to seat BOOLITS effectively. Who has not had this problem?
Worked for me.
Life is good

[NSP64]

You can take the die and polish the body to make it bigger.

[looseprojectile]

And I have some dies and moulds that I should have NOT altered.
Life is good

[HeavyMetal]

One other tip, if you not using a progressive press, Take a deburring tool and chamfer the inside of the case mouth to remove any sharp edge. This will for sure cause shaving.

Looseprojectile has an excellent thought so check you seating die with a preped case with no boolit in it. You should be able to get half the case in the die before feeling any ressitance on the case. If not polish or replace as you see fit.

One more thing: Pull your expander plug out of the die and check to see if the belling area is close enough to the case mouth to actually bell the case with a reasonable adjustment range. It is possible the belling section is to far "up" the plug to work right for you ( it could also be for a 357 maximum round) diameter of the plug should be right around .357 to 358 diameter. .356 is doable but might let the case "size" a softer boolit down.

[Jal5]

I solved the shaving problem by just flaring the case a bit more, and this batch of bullets was able to seat pretty easily and roll crimped them in the separate step. No shavings at all. I will see how they work out next visit to the range. Thanks.

Joe

[mastercast.com]

Boys and girls,

Lead prices are going up again...13% this week!

Mike