358429 in 357 magnum

[Rickf1985]

I have been going nuts trying to find some sort of accurate information on load data for this load. Really a couple of loads, but mainly the 358429 Keith bullet in a Ruger GP-100 357 magnum. I have found a decent load using CFE Pistol for 158 grain loads but nothing for the 168 grain load. Also is the COL, They call for 1.590 if I remember correctly and that puts the entire bullet in the case and I will be crimping above the top driving band. Now, although I am only using about 5.3 grains of powder I am also thinking this could be a pressure situation. Now I did see an older post on another forum, don't know which one, it was a search. The poster said he never has never paid attention to the internet data since he started loading revolver bullets in the 60's. He simply crimps on the crimp groove and calls it good. Somehow that makes a lot of sense.
Next issue I have is wadcutters. I know they are loaded flush with the face of the case but again, no data at all for 357. I have a ton of 158 gr. wadcutters and I know I have seen somewhere that they shoot quite well from 357 mag revolvers. But no data. If I crimp at the face of the bullet can it recess into the case since the crimp is not holding it from sliding back?

[dannyd]

Why not use 38 Special cases especially for the wadcutters. Lyman's manual has data for 357 magnum 358429. Great bullet I use it in my Encore rifle.

[Rickf1985]

Why not use 38 Special cases especially for the wadcutters. Lyman's manual has data for 357 magnum 358429. Great bullet I use it in my Encore rifle.

Yes, they do, but they have you crimping above the top driving band! To me there is something wrong with that. If you were supposed to crimp that far up then why is there a crimp groove .035 lower on the bullet? And, crimping above the driving band will keep the bullet from moving forward but it will not prevent the bullet from moving back into the powder and that could be seriously bad!

[rintinglen]

The crimp groove was placed where it was/is because the 358-429 was designed for the 38 Special; the 357 hadn't been invented yet.

If loaded to the full length and crimped in the crimp groove, it is too long for the N-frame cylinders of the model 27 & 28 Smiths. Most newer designs have longer cylinders and can handle the ~1.7" length, but Lyman makes their data suitable for every 357, not just those with longer cylinders.

I have in the past used the longer length and bumped the charge slightly, "but I was young and foolish then; I am older now."

[dannyd]

Yes, they do, but they have you crimping above the top driving band! To me there is something wrong with that. If you were supposed to crimp that far up then why is there a crimp groove .035 lower on the bullet? And, crimping above the driving band will keep the bullet from moving forward but it will not prevent the bullet from moving back into the powder and that could be seriously bad!

I taper crimp all my rounds because I just shoot paper, so I crimp to the first driving band. Never had a problem. Yesterday

[Mr Peabody]

I use that design in my .357 crimped in the crimp groove. I use 5.5grs of CFE Pistol for 910fps out of a 5.5 inch barrel. It works very well for me. If the round chambers properly in my handgun with a boolit crimped in the crimp groove I use it that way.

[Forrest r]

A link to the lyman 3rd edition cast bullet manual, frre download. On page 270 you will see 357mag/wc load data.
http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manu...-%20Reduce.pdf

Nothing says you have to load wc's flush. Crimp them wherever you want. I load them long in 38spl cases and use standard swc data.
[IMG][/IMG]

Loading them long gets the wc's out further into the leade of the cylinders of the 357mags aiding in accuracy.
[IMG][/IMG]

When reloading with the 358429 cast bullets I crimp them in the crimp grooves and work loads up looking for accuracy over a chronograph. The 357mag revolvers that I use have longer cylinders (s&w 586/6986 and dw revolvers).

You're gp-100 should have a long enough cylinder to crimp those 358429's in their crimp grooves.

[Ed_Shot]

The GP-100 6" I load for will not take a 358429 crimped in the crimp grove on a .357 Mag case. My Blackhawk, Security Six and Mod 19 cylinders have no trouble with the longer COAL. All my Lyman manuals have .357 Mag data for the 357429 but all recommend a COAL of 1.553 which places the crimp over the front driving band. I use a COAL of 1.660 for my 358429 in a .357 case and my pet load is Unique 6.0 gr. The 358429 outstanding in 38 Spl also.

[Rickf1985]

Thanks guys, That is the info I was wanting to see. The biggest problem I have is the older manuals do have a lot of good info but the powders are obsolete. And I always try to use powders I have on hand so I am not overloaded with powder that gets used for one cartridge in one gun. That gets real expensive and takes up a lot of valuable storage space. I do have one pound each of Bullseye and Unique but I was lucky to find them at an auction and I don't want to depend on ever finding anymore. I know it is available once in a while but usually close to 50.00 a pound!!! Comes a point that between primers powder and lead the price gets to be more than buying ammo off the shelf. I do have roughly a ton and a half of wheel weights so I am good in the lead department but the primers and powder hurt.

[45DUDE]

The LEE book has info for crimping in different places with the same boolit and different powder charges. A S&W model 27 has a shorter cylinder than a model 19 and some boolits will be too long. I have found starting charges give great accuracy with heavier boolits. I think Unique will do better than Bullseye with heavier boolits and maybe try to find some 2400 for going a little faster.

[Beerd]

............. All my Lyman manuals have .357 Mag data for the 357429 but all recommend a COAL of 1.553 which places the crimp over the front driving band.......

The load data in the Contender section of the Lyman manuals show a longer over all length putting the crimp in the crimp groove.
Start and max loads given are the same as for the shorter OAL.
..

[44MAG#1]

Crimp slightly over the front drive band. Start at 12 grain of 2400 and work up slowly till you get the accuracy you want.
Crimping over the front band is nothing new.
I do it. The OAL will be close to the 38 Special OAL.
It will WORK and WORK well.

[Budzilla 19]

5.5” GP 100 in 357, 358429 crimped in the crimp groove, it fits the cylinder, but, boy, it is close! But they don’t back out so good to go! Now, if I could just get these to stop leading like crazy! 12 grains of 2400, mag primer, six shots had the barrel leaded. Pc in clear, but I didn’t cast them, so I don’t know the alloy. Work in progress. Dougguy will probably get some of my stash money to set the cylinder on the right path. Eliminate that part of the equation. Good luck to you.

[Rickf1985]

Factory bought cast bullets are usually way to hard and that alone will cause leading. I do know Missouri Bullet Co. sell normal hardness bullets in the 12-15 bhn range. I am not a fan of powder coating but then again I have never done it. good old fashioned lube has always worked well for me. Another thing is bullet fit, are your bullets fitting tight in the barrel? Or is it just the PC that is making it tight?

[fecmech]

I have loaded the 358429 since the early 70's and taper crimped on the front drive band to get the longest oal I could without tying up the cylinder. For my Ruger GP I load to an oal of 1.638 taper crimped in the front band and there is no bullet movement in recoil. Max loads of 296 give 50yd 6 shot groups in the 2.5" range with zero leading. Once I started using 296 (again back in the 70's) I never found any powder more accurate at mag velocities in the .357 or .44mag with the Keith bullets.

[357Mag]

Rick -

Howdy !

If you are looking for a great .357Mag powder recommendation, might I suggest WW296 ( H110 same stuff )

My favorite .357Mag load for 45+ years has been 14.5gr WW296, and SP Mag primer; under a Lyman SWC of 158 - 172gr. The 358429 being one of my favorites to shoot. This charge shot great w/ safe pressure under that entire boolit wt span I mentioned.

I have been shooting 4, 5, and 6" " N"-Mag; so yeh.... I crimp them on the upper drive and. I also shoot most of my loads w/o a gas check. Leading ( for me ) has not been a problem ( my guns, my loads ).


With regards,
357Mag

[357Mag]

Rick -

Howdy !

If you are looking for a great .357Mag powder recommendation, might I suggest WW296 ( H110 same stuff )

My favorite .357Mag load for 45+ years has been 14.5gr WW296, and SP Mag primer; under a Lyman SWC of 158 - 172gr. The 358429 being one of my favorites to shoot. This charge shot great w/ safe pressure under that entire boolit wt span I mentioned.

I have been shooting 4, 5, and 6" " N"-Mag; so yeh.... I crimp them on the upper drive and. I also shoot most of my loads w/o a gas check. Leading ( for me ) has not been a problem ( my guns, my loads ).


With regards,
357Mag

[Charlie Horse]

Also is the COL, They call for 1.590 if I remember correctly and that puts the entire bullet in the case and I will be crimping above the top driving band.

If I seat the Lee 168 grain boolit that deep it bulges the 357 case. I stop at the crimp groove.

[brassrat]

I trim my .357 cases down and crimp in crimp groove.

[justindad]

I don’t like crimping over the driving band either. Load some up crimped over the driving band and measure the speed over a chrono. Load some more at the same charge and send them over the chrono. If speed is lower with the longer OAL (might not be), increase the charge until the speed matches. When the two charge-OAL combinations match speed, then you’re good.