45-70 load concept, will this work?

[BRatigan]

Here is my question. Will I have any trouble with using a .060 vegetable fiber cardboard wad from Buffalo Arms in my reduced load 45-70 smokeless, loading of 13 grains of Unique under a 405 coated bullet? The cardboard sits closely atop the powder and its a nice close fit for diameter of the wad. This of course leaves an airspace between the wad and the bullet. The powder is right up against the primer with no air in the powder location. Will this cause any pressure concerns?

[huntinlever]

Don't have an answer, but following with interest. Thanks for the thread.

[HWooldridge]

I saw a 45-70 chamber "ringed" by a load that had an air gap between the card wad and the bullet. If it were me, I'd add some foam or cardboard wads underneath to take up the space and allow some light compression.

[huntinlever]

Here is my question. Will I have any trouble with using a .060 vegetable fiber cardboard wad from Buffalo Arms in my reduced load 45-70 smokeless, loading of 13 grains of Unique under a 405 coated bullet? The cardboard sits closely atop the powder and its a nice close fit for diameter of the wad. This of course leaves an airspace between the wad and the bullet. The powder is right up against the primer with no air in the powder location. Will this cause any pressure concerns?

You may have seen his material but in case not, the filler discussions and posts by Larry Gibson are a wealth of information. He doesn't use wadding but he does use dacron fiber for certain (not all, which he makes clear) loads.

[Maven]

I use that load in my Marlin without any filler, wad, etc. and get excellent accuracy with the Lee 405gr. HB [cast] bullet. My point is that Unique isn't position sensitive so far as I can tell (and if it is, elevate your muzzle slightly prior to firing).

[shell70634]

I shoot that load,or near it, and have never used a wad or filler with excellent results.

[Bent Ramrod]

Don’t do this. Unique ignites just fine and burns completely without any wads in the .45-70. 13 grains is the load I use for fun shooting in my .45-70s, with 300-405 gr plainbase boolits.

The only time I find that holding a (relatively) small volume of smokeless against the primer makes a difference in shooting is with medium-burning powders (4759 to 3031) in extra-long cartridge cases like the .40-90 Straight. There I use a tuft of Kapok salvaged from an old chair cushion, never anything solid like a cardboard wad.

[Nobade]

I would not do that. it is a really good way to ring your chamber. The wad gets a running start and really hammers the base of the bullet when it gets there. As mentioned before, no need for a wad in that load with Unique.

[stubshaft]

I would concur with the majority of posters and not load in this manner. You do not need the wad.

[BRatigan]

Thank you all for your sage advice. I will nix the idea. As it was, I got excellent accuracy from the Unique load at 13 under the 405. My Standard Deviation was at 19fps. I was looking to get it into single digits by keeping the powder next to the primer. Just trying to peel the skin off a rock. I'll skip the fillers for now.

[Hamish]

With that SD, you’ll never be able to see it on the target. Sounds like you’re golden.

[robg]

i use 2400 with 350gn lead boolit .i have found a quater sheet of toilet paper holds powder against powder and is completly burn so nothing left in barrel to cause concern.

[RickinTN]

I wouldn't do that either like most here. If you want to superglue the wad to the base of the bullet go ahead. I don't think you'll see any improvement. Sounds like a wonderful load without it.
Take care!
Rick

[Snakeoil]

When you alter the volume, you alter the pressure. The smaller the volume the higher the pressure. A wad, although light and thin can behave like a light bullet. What you have to keep in mind is how fast things occur in the chamber. To understand what I mean, push a coffee cup across a table with you finger. Moves easily. Now draw your hand back and jam your finger into the cup. Yeah, it will move, but your finger will suffer. A body at rest tends to stay at rest.

[pworley1]

I never use any kind of wad or filler with unique.

[405grain]

Flake type double based pistol powders are usually position insensitive. (2400 is also position insensitive) Wads or fillers are not needed with these types of powder. Wads & fillers are for improving the ignition characteristics of slower single based rifle powders and black powder. Upon ignition the pressure curve rise with double based pistol powders is so rapid that an obstruction inside a large capacity case could (theoretically) reflect a shock wave back into the column of hot expanding gas inside the chambered cartridge case. If this happens, the supersonic compression from this shock wave will increase the powder's burning rate exponentially. This increase in burning rate & pressure (happening within fractions of a thousandth of a second) could potentially damage the firearm and place the shooter in danger. It is not a good idea to use either cards or fillers in large capacity rifle cartridges when using quick burning double based pistol powders. (As a personal choice) I do not use fillers with any double based powders (like AA5744) because the presence of nitroglycerin provides for an ease of ignition that (I feel) makes the use of fillers unnecessary.

[ddixie884]

Don't have an answer, but following with interest. Thanks for the thread.

Me too.............

[scattershot]

Don’t do it. As others have said, you could damage your gun.