anyone put a 444 marlin in a P14 or other bolt action?

[stef76]

Have one nearby(a sporterised 303 with the ears cut off and scope mounted) and was thinking about getting a smith to convert to 444 marlin. Heard the no.4 lee enfiield is a fairly simple conversion but I wanted to step up the power a bit, get a decent twist rate and throat length and run it like a poor mans 404 jeffery with some custom bullets. Reasons....just because, also I have a lot of 44 mag bullets on hand.

Question is how complex is the conversion from the P14? Any easier actions out there that are strong? Saw one random post on the net saying a Ruger gunsite will work too, apparently 444 will feed right out of the mag unaltered. Thanks for your thoughts gents

[pietro]

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Long ago, ,Gibbs Rifle Company offered a No4 Mk1 Enfield converted to .45-70, so a .444 seems doable.

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[elk hunter]

I suppose it is doable. If I were to try building one on the P-14 action I'd start by pulling the barrel and seeing if the 444 round would start to feed from the magazine. I made a 45-70 on a P-14 action years ago. It took some tinkering but it worked. About ten years ago I started building a 375 Waters Express, which is the 444 necked to 375, on a #4 Mk 1 Enfield action. I'm still trying to get the darn thing to feed from the magazine. Gibbs used a new made single stack magazine for their 45-70. I have a Marlin 444 and I'm convinced that is the way to go for a 444 repeater.

[LAGS]

There is a model P-14 that was converted to 7.62x54r using surplus machine gun barrels.
The rifle was built over in Pakistan.
They used it for very long range shooting.
They called it "Dangar" wich means Animalistic in their country.

[Texas by God]

I had a P14 rebarreled to .450 Marlin as the bolt face was a perfect fit. I swapped the magazine box out to a 1917 style and it fed just fine.
The semirimmed .444 would probably fit the 1917 bolt face and magazine better than in the P14- but you don't know till you try it.
Wondering things like this is how I got my 93 Mauser 30-30

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[405grain]

I've got two P14 actions that are going to be used for future projects. The first one is going to be converted into a sporter in 30-40 Krag. That one won't require much alteration. The second one's earmarked to become a sporter in 9.5x57 Mannlicher-Schoenaur, and will require extensive reworking. Here's some insights that might be helpful for building that P14 in 444 Marlin:

The firing pin tip on a P14 is smaller than the firing pin on an M1917. The P14 firing pin was designed for Berdan primers, and the tip is so small that it might cause pierced primers on Boxer primed ammunition. The bolts on P14 and M17 are different, as the M17 used a cone breech and the P14 has a flat breech, so getting that standard size firing pin tip isn't as simple as swapping out bolt bodies. Unless you plan to convert the barrel to a cone breech you'll need to drill out the firing pin hole on the P14 bolt, and then switch to a M1917 firing pin. The metal on a P14 bolt is so insanely hard that I've had to use a carbide Hirok bit to do this.

The follower on a P14 is different from the one on an M17. The M1917 follower is similar to a Mauser. The follower on a P1914 has an almost spoon shaped lip on it's front that was designed to help the last cartridge in the magazine up and into the chamber. Both the magazine well, and the follower on a P14 were designed for rimmed cartridges. The magazine well and follower on a M17 were designed for rimless cartridges. When adapting a P14 action for rimless or belted cartridges it is normal to change out the mag box and follower for one from a M17.

Before you pull the barrel from your action you should make up some dummy rounds of 444 marlin and see how they cycle. On any control feed bolt action the nose of the bullet should be entering the back of the chamber before the base of the cartridge strips from the magazine. Of course the 444 isn't going to actually chamber in that 303 barrel; what you're looking for is if the tip of the cartridge is going to be pointing in the right direction and enter the back of the chamber, and that the rim of the cartridge is going to pop up out of the magazine at the proper time. If the nose of the bullet is going to go into the chamber and the rim wants to come out of the magazine with the rim going under the extractor, your 90% on the way to having everything feed normally. (Gunsmithing disclaimer: this almost never happens in real life. We're just dreaming, and almost every conversion like this is going to drive us nuts trying to get it to feed. Just saying.)

If it looks like the action might feed this cartridge, then pull the barrel and go to work. Both M17 and P14's are notorious for having the barrels installed by Godzilla while he was on steroids. At the factories at Winchester, Remington, and Eddystone, they used hydraulic machines to install the barrels so tightly that each time they torqued on a barrel is slowed the rotation of the Earth by a fraction of a second. It is common practice when removing the barrel from both M17's and P14's to use a parting tool and cut a groove in the barrel about 1/16" ahead of the action to relieve the tension and allow the barrel to be unscrewed. Without doing this, the force required to unscrew the barrel off of these action has (on several occasions) been so high that it has actually cracked the receiver. Another warning: the front receiver ring on these actions has a "step" machined into it. There have been instances of some low IQ people taking a parting tool and making that groove cut just ahead of the step - basically cutting the front of the receiver off. Don't be that guy. In a pinch you can even make a groove around the base of the barrel with a hacksaw cut. So long as it takes the compression off of the face of the receiver it will make the barrel easier to unscrew. The barrel shank uses square threads, but square threads aren't that hard to machine.

Last thing: I do recall someone built a Siamese Mauser in 444 Marlin somewhere on the internet, but I can't recall one built on a P14. That doesn't mean that it can't be done, it just means that you might be exploring uncharted territory.

[muskeg13]

I converted a rifle to .35 Winchester last year using a M1917 receiver and trigger guard with all other parts being from a P14, including a rebored .303 barrel. I think a conversion to .444 would be easier, since you can probably use an unaltered P14 trigger guard and follower. I needed the extra length the M1917 receiver feed ramp and trigger guard (magazine) afforded to accommodate the .35 WCF that's a bit longer OAL than the .303. You'll need to rebarrel as there isn't enough "meat" in a P14 barrel to rebore to .444.

Despite all the warnings about how overly tight original barrels are on original receivers, I was able to swap barrels just as easily as on a M98 Mauser using a Mauser action wrench and a Wheeler vise. No relief cuts were needed, which is good since I intended to rebore and reuse the .303 barrel. You just need to try it before resorting to extraordinary methods to remove the barrel.

[W.R.Buchanan]

45-70 is a better conversion and Gibbs made them for a while. I would melt all those .44 cal. boolits down and recast in .458.

Here's a pic of one that I think is a Gibbs ? it is close in any event. I also have some pics of some nice custom #4 .45-70's. They make excellent Sporters .

The magazine on the second one is a Very Rare aftermarket 5 rounder, and is worth more than the gun!

Randy

[405grain]

W.R.Buchanan: Your rifle is a Lee Enfield. A Pattern 1914 Enfield is a completely different action. Converting a P14 to 45-70 (which is doable) would be much more involved than doing that conversion on a Lee Enfield. If you want a bolt action in 45-70 it would be easier to convert either a Siamese Mauser, a Lee Enfield, or a Mosin Nagant to that caliber than it would be to make one on a P14. Because the Pattern 1914 was originally intended (as the pattern 1913) to fire a magnum cartridge, the action on a P14 is very strong. A P14 would be able to easily handle Ruger #1 level 45-70 loads, but it would take a lot of work to get those cartridges to feed correctly.

[Milky Duck]

There is a model P-14 that was converted to 7.62x54r using surplus machine gun barrels.
The rifle was built over in Pakistan.
They used it for very long range shooting.
They called it "Dangar" wich means Animalistic in their country.

there is one here in NZ built in last few years with a barrel chambered in old cartridge,yip the makers are tooled up to give the old gals a new lease of life

[Milky Duck]

loads of SMLEs have been converted to all sorts of cartirdges over the years....Ive seen .410 smoothbore done on one too,same deal though,its magazine feeding where it gets fiddly.
as a single shot it would be dead easy....a repeater not so much.

[Milky Duck]

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....mpleted-81778/

you guys might like this guys work...I surely do.

[M-Tecs]

W.R.Buchanan: Your rifle is a Lee Enfield. A Pattern 1914 Enfield is a completely different action. Converting a P14 to 45-70 (which is doable) would be much more involved than doing that conversion on a Lee Enfield. If you want a bolt action in 45-70 it would be easier to convert either a Siamese Mauser, a Lee Enfield, or a Mosin Nagant to that caliber than it would be to make one on a P14. Because the Pattern 1914 was originally intended (as the pattern 1913) to fire a magnum cartridge, the action on a P14 is very strong. A P14 would be able to easily handle Ruger #1 level 45-70 loads, but it would take a lot of work to get those cartridges to feed correctly.

Wasn't the P13 designed for the .276 Enfield?

[john.k]

Without checkin,I doubt that a P14 bolt face could enlarged enough to work with 45/70......If you want a Mauser for 45/70 ......just go and buy a Siamese Mauser.......everything will fit ,the magazine will work perfectly,the gun is made (by professionals) for a 45/70 size case.

[Blue2]

There is a model P-14 that was converted to 7.62x54r using surplus machine gun barrels.
The rifle was built over in Pakistan.
They used it for very long range shooting.
They called it "Dangar" wich means Animalistic in their country.

I have done this one. The bolt face needs to be opened up a bit and the extractor tweeked but it runs great.

[longbow]

I had a Siamese Mauser converted to .45-70 in the 1970's. That worked well.

I have seen Lee Enfields converted to .45-70 and .458x2".

I was toying with the idea of converting a Lee Enfield to 444 Marlin but didn't get to it. Not sure how difficult feeding issues would be but since there are .45-70 conversions I can't think it would be that difficult.

Another option is 444 rimless or .45 Raptor both of which fit standard 0.473" bolt face. I'd be inclined to go 444 rimless since I have several .44 moulds and brass to make cartridges is plentiful and cheap.

Longbow

[Rockindaddy]

Have a Navy Arms Siamese Mauser carbine in 45-70 I have loaded and shot Elmer Keiths pet load in it (53 grs. 3031 and a 400gr Speer flat point) Makes about 1850 fps! It rocks and socks but will really take down most anything in North America. Don't shoot it much anymore. Would probably sell it ! Cheaper than an 1895 Marlin or a Winchester 1886. The 444 Marlin would be a good conversion in a 303 Enfield Plus you already have plenty of 44 cal bullets. The 300gr 44 bullets in a 444 work the best! Century Arms has alot of Enfield parts! They bought out Springfield Sporters the original importer of alot of 303 Enfield parts. Just bought a new buttstock for my US Property marked Savage No.4 The stock they sent is beautiful! You can choose an "L" stock that is a little bit longer than standard if you have long arms.

[M-Tecs]

Without checkin,I doubt that a P14 bolt face could enlarged enough to work with 45/70......If you want a Mauser for 45/70 ......just go and buy a Siamese Mauser.......everything will fit ,the magazine will work perfectly,the gun is made (by professionals) for a 45/70 size case.

They do use the P14 actions for custom .505 Gibbs builds so rims larger than the 45/70 will work.

[stef76]

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....mpleted-81778/

you guys might like this guys work...I surely do.

I sure did like his work. Contacted him a while back to make me one without the supressor. Emailed details back and forth for a month or two and was all lined up to start. Then he dropped off the face of the earth. Sent a bunch of emails , didnt even get a reply again. I see he is still building for others so I guess he wasnt interested in international orders, or even having the courtesy to tell me.