A bear rifle for my fifties

[Bouteselle]

Gentlemen,

we can only find happiness in ourselves, it is madness to expect it from others. And what is happiness? A new rifle of course...
I’ve always wanted a big 50 single shot, but here they are very, very rare, and of course very expensive. I also want to shoot with it... and go hunting.
I’m thinking of starting a project for my 50th birthday in three years. I have a beautiful RB action, a superb octagonal Douglas 511" barrel with 24" twist, a 50-90 Sharps reamer, and Roy Marcot’s book.
But I have some doubts before launching the project...
First, does the 50-90 cartridge pass without modification in an RB 43 Egyptian military receiver?
Then, to do it right, you’d have to turn the receiver into a sporting one. I have a gunsmith who is competent to do the transformation, but we should redo the case hardening. That would be pretty expensive, and in the end, I’ll have a new-looking action, and a brand new rifle.

The problem is I like the patina of this action, and the grey tan of the well worn rifles.
So I wonder if it would not be more reasonable to mount this action almost as is, making a "fragile" tan of the barrel.
Historically I believe that the first Rb were made with military receivers and round barrels... on the other hand with these rifles, everything was also made.
What do you think?

[M-Tecs]

I am not a roller guy but I believe it going to be close. The receiver will not need to be modified but the hammer may. That's a nice action.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ngth-cartridge

[Jedman]

You are on the right track. Marlinman has done many rolling block builds and I’m sure he will chime in and give you recommendations. What you want can be done on your action with the barrel blank you have.

Jedman

[marlinman93]

I own an original Remington Rolling Block in .50-70 Govt. cartridge so it will work. Not sure about the slightly longer .50-90 or what mods are needed to build a .50-90 Rolling Block?
I'm currently getting up to speed with my .50-140 Sharps, and it's caused me to have to buy a lot of tools that I never needed before. Even my old RCBS Rock Chucker press is too small with it's 3.5" stroke, so I had to replace it with a new RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme press to allow the longer .50-140 case to be able to seat bullets without having to back out the seating die to get the loaded case out!

[kootne]

The hammer nose may need to be re-profiled to allow the .50/90 cartridge to clear. The .50/70 is short enough to work fine and is plenty of cartridge as originally loaded for anything in most people will ever hunt.
If you want to make a true conversion to a sporter receiver you will need to do the following;
1. Thin the width of the upper tang.
2. Thin the receiver sides.
3. Extend the lower tang and thin the width.
4. Reprofile the trigger guard.
5. Reprofile hammer and engrave a checkered shield.
6. Reprofile (thin) breech-block spur and engrave a checkered shield.
7. Rear cross screw screw on lower tang needs to be converted to two short screws, one from each side.
8. There will probably not be enough material on the receiver ring to do an original profile octagon top without welding it up. I would leave it a round top like early sporters.
Much easier to ignore all those details and just use it as is.
I did one years ago, never again. Then I bought a couple original sporters, if time is worth anything, it was cheaper.

[gunther]

Built a 50-70 years ago. Unless you are set on a 50-90, the 50-70 will do about anything you want done with easier to find brass. It was a carbine from a 43 Spanish rifle and parts from Dixie Gun Works. Tried it out on a 6 inch poplar. 1/2 inch hole going in, back of the tree was gone. That with a case full of 3f black powder and a 450 grain Lyman 515141 450 grain boolit of 1970 vintage wheel weights. The 50-90 will have a bit lower trajectory, and beat up your shoulder a bit more. Because of the trajectory, either caliber will be 100 yard proposition.
From what I've been told, a lot of bear guides will not be comfortable with that range and a single shot rifle unless you can demonstrate a reload that's faster than a bolt action. A bear big enough to appreciate the difference is going to live in Alaska.

[Markopolo]

Just something to dream about and contemplate.

[John Taylor]

The top of the breach block will need to be cut down a little and the nose of the hammer will need to be altered a bit. Good luck and have fun.

[Bouteselle]

This is the aspect I like



I'm headed towards 50-90 beacause I've caught a reamer some years ago, just in case. That's already saved. And honnestly it won't make a big difference, with 20 brass it will take sometime, I won't shoot that much.
I'll think over your kind relevant remarks.
As for bears, it ain't risking much, it must have been three ou four thousand years since it was last seen in the surroundings!

[marlinman93]

I don't usually thin the receivers at all. They're fine as they are, and if your build is emulating an early Rolling Block Sporting Rifle those rifles simply used an original round top military action and a Sporter lower trigger plate/tang, and slimmed down upper tang.
You could also convert to a pistol grip lower tang from the leftover lower tangs Numrich Gun Parts has, and save all the time and cost of reworking the stock lower tang. Then just thin, and shape the upper tang to Sporting contours. I've done a few using the 1990's Remington PG lower tangs and they're easy to fit to a military action.
Here's one I did a few years back:

[45workhorse]

I'd be torn too. Leave the natural patina, or a beautiful new color case hardening. It might boil down to the wood.

Nice fancy curl walnut, maple and color case hardening or just nice wood and natural patina.......!!

Hard call!

Either way it will look good.

[Bouteselle]

Could you give me the correct width of the upper tang, and the correct length and width of the lower tang?
It is true that a thinner hammer & block makes it waayyyy more good looking.
I don't really like the pistol grip; all the more so it will be easy to modify.

[marlinman93]

Could you give me the correct width of the upper tang, and the correct length and width of the lower tang?
It is true that a thinner hammer & block makes it waayyyy more good looking.
I don't really like the pistol grip; all the more so it will be easy to modify.

It's really tough to give dimensions, as the tang isn't the same width front to back. So it will require it to be a tapered width, and the same goes for the thickness. It too is tapered. The length of the lower tang can vary slightly, as all these old guns were hand finished and fitted, so may be a few thousandths difference here or there.
Best to get the stocks you want first, and then work the metal down until it fits the stocks. And you can then have metal tig welded to a lower tang, and drill and countersink for the extra wood screw a Sporting model uses on the lower tang.

There is a company here in the US that makes Sporter stocks cut to fit military tangs, and wont require any reworking of the upper or lower tangs. Just minor inletting to fit, and they're done. Still need to shape the trigger guard to Sporting shapes to get rid of the blocky, squared off trigger guard though.
Gunstocks Inc. and Treebone Carving both sell these stocks. But not sure if they ship overseas?

[j p sixguns welldone]

sounds like a cool project. good luck and pics along the process

[Bouteselle]

Yes I wanted to order the woods from Treebone carving when the receiver is barreled.
They ship overseas, no problem. And I’ve already received several blank barrel, I have some friends, I manage!
This is a project that will last a few years. First I am not in a hurry, I need some money, and my gunsmith is in great demand... each stage will take six months!

[kootne]

Here is some info on those dimensions. Given to me by a friend who is now deceased, I'm now passing them on to potential friends I'll likely never meet.

Also, if you join the ASSRA (American Singleshot Rifle Association) you can request copies of items from their archives. I am pretty sure they have digital if not paper copies of Bud Smith's drawings (Tools International) and I'm guessing Rolling block sporters are in that collection. Those drawings in general are known to have occasional errors but they a mile ahead of trying to scale off photographs. There are several pages to each action, they are 95+% of what a good machinist would need to make a working action, altho no tolerances are given.
There may be a charge for those copies, I got a set of Hi-wall, Hepburn and Target sights 25-30 years ago form Tools International, i seem to remember $50 or $75a set. They were full blueprints, maybe 2' x 3', several pages each.

[Bouteselle]

Thanks! I will keep it in mind, and think over it!
I'll keep you all aware.