bad Groups in 45-70

[wallacem]

Hey guys, Please help solve this grouping problem with my NEF 45-70. See target. Shooting 405 gr cast sized .460, shoots great in my other guns. Shooting here at 50 yds. This load here is 13 gr Green Dot and with cold barrel, first shot very low. Second shot high, next four shots connected together. Does this every time, starting with cold bbl.

[Norske]

Bevel-base bullets? If so, try flat base or gas check bullets.
Does this rifle barrel have a different twist rate than your others? If it's slower you may need to use shorter bullet.

[T-Bird]

Are you starting every time with a cleaned barrel?

[BLAHUT]

Clean barrel ? Twist ? Try a touch more or less powder? Pure lead ? Try a different alloy? What happens after 10 shots and you let barrel cool ? Get some creosafe and make a chamber cast so you can see what you have ?

[versa-06]

I suggest you change your charge either up or down, I've seen this before this change has worked for me in the past. I'm sure that you already know that every rifle is a 'Law' unto itself.

[ascast]

ya stop taking that first shot ...



sorry, I just could stop myself

[versa-06]

Lol

[longcruise]

It's a break action NEF! Now that's somewhat facetious, but those guns were not very well quality controlled.

Over length chambers was one of the problems. I had one of their 223s that with the bullet .003 off the lands the bullet would be approximately 1/4" OUTSIDE the case !

It might be worth checking out the chamber and be sure that you are loading to the lands. Also, bullets with a longish ratio of bore riding nose are going to bump up into some peculiar shapes.

[Dapaki]

Work your ladder for this round, run them over your chrony and see what those shots are doing.

[wallacem]

I will be shooting it again tomorrow, but really can;t see that it could be the load or bullet. Four of them were tight, only the first two were out. I loaded the rounds with the bullet almost touching the rifling. Will advise again tomorrow

[725]

I've had the NEF .45-70 and it was superb in the accuracy department. Agree with a slight increase in the powder load. A grain or two.

One question: How's the lock up? I've tightened up some rattlely ones with a thin (opened up .22 case - pounded flat) sheet of brass around the hinge bar. Worked great.

[Texas by God]

If you are starting with a freshly cleaned barrel- try not cleaning it. Hey, worth a shot- pun intended
That's a big flyer. My 44-40 Topper shoots one out then two connected- but only an inch apart at 40yds and 2or 3 inches apart at 100yds. I've only cleaned it twice since I finished it a few years back. Once after playing with Blackpowder, and once when some commercial cast bullets left a good dose of lead behind.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[Bird]

If you are starting with a cleaned bore, then there is no lube in front of the first fired bullet, and will get progressively better as each round is fired. Try shooting without cleaning it every time you put the gun away. That would prove or disprove the above. I think most people overclean barrels anyway, unless they are using black powder.
What does your barrel slug at?

[ascast]

OK seriously, I would try a dirty barrel as said above. If first is always out and clean, I would try that first. I have found Unique to be like this, verticle groups, but usually very tight in close like 50 yd but out at 200 on they open up verticle. NOt sure why.

[geezer56]

I have had probably 50 handi rifles of various and sundry calibers over the years. I never had one that liked a clean bore, at least not on the first couple of shots. If you are starting with a clean bore, that's probably your problem. If the bore is fouled when you start, it will be a lockup issue. Try shimming on the hinge pin if it's loose, or try the barrel on another frame if you have one that locks up ok.

[Castaway]

I'm sure you’re sandbagging the rifle for a steady rest. Move front sandbag as far rearward as the trigger guard allows. Shoot it, wait two minutes, repeat 5 times. Don’t clean, repeat again another day. How was grouping? If group is tight, don’t clean until hunting season is over. If not tight and problem starts to repeat itself, fire 10 shots and see if the following 8 shots are tightly grouped. Your barrel should be a 1:20 twist so 400 grain bullets are right in its comfort zone. I’d play with different charges to find the harmonic sweet spot on the barrel

[ABJ]

If you are starting with a cleaned bore, then there is no lube in front of the first fired bullet, and will get progressively better as each round is fired. Try shooting without cleaning it every time you put the gun away. That would prove or disprove the above. I think most people overclean barrels anyway, unless they are using black powder.
What does your barrel slug at?

Bird is very close to my thoughts. I would suggest if you have not cleaned the barrel since firing those groups, don't. Take a patch and rub some bullet lube on the patch and make one pass down the barrel before the first shot. The idea is to get the barrel in the same condition as far a lube goes as the last three shots. I use a lightly oil patch with ED's red and that has done away with cold barrel fliers. I would almost bet money it's a lube condition problem.
Tony

[Alferd Packer]

Try shooting a group while shoving a wet, then a dry patch thru, between each shot.
A clean barrel for each first shot, all in one group.
Assuming the same point of aim.

[Sgt H]

I will agree with several others on bore condition if you are starting with a clean barrel. If this is the case a little surprised it only took 2 shots to settle down. My Sharps and 1886 Browning 45-70's take 4-5 to settle down after a thorough cleaning, of course every rifle is a law unto itself. I would say almost every rifle shooting lubed lead bullets will do better with a fouled/conditioned bore. Take 22's for example, I have several very accurate rifles and they take from 15-25 rounds to settle down after a cleaning. Even rifles firing high velocity jacketed rounds will often not put the first few rounds from a clean bore in the normal group. Once I zero a rifle for hunting it does not get cleaned till after the season.

[MT Gianni]

If you're shooting cast and a non corrosive powder and primer do not clean your gun until the accuracy falls off or it wouldn't be shot for several months.