RIP .327 Federal Magnum?

[dtknowles]

Hey DT!
What about your 7.62x25 Tokarev?
Is that a dead cartridge?

Good point. My CZ 52 is packed for a range visit right now.

[wrench man]

When I got my Ruger Single Seven I picked up federal AE for it at Sportsman's Warehouse regularly, I can see no less than 14 boxes of it right from where I'm sitting, and I know I have a couple more around and I have a bag of Starline brass too, so the Single Seven and Henry rifle I got to go with the revolver will be well fed.
I also picked up a Single Six "Baby Vaquero" 32 H&R so I got several bags of Starline brass for it, and for bullets I can see 1100 worth sitting on the shelf too.
the 32's are alive and well here.

[cwlongshot]

Same here. I bought the gun and ordered brass and a few boxes of loaded A&E. I also ordered a 135g Bullet
Mold from Arsenal.

Fell for the caliber HARD!! Convinced my pop he needed one and bought a consecutive set of birds heads S7 Rugers and another 6box of A&E ammo. Its hot stuff but shoots well and provides good brass. Combined with the ability ta shoot FIVE CALIBERS!!!

ZERO SHORTAGE HERE! Gun is nothing but a brick if ya dont have ammo OR ability to make ammo.

MY 327's aint going no where and can be fed far past my life span.

CW

[Green Frog]

CW,
I first got interested in the 327 FM for heavier (115-125 gr) bullets, but am now starting to warm up to the idea of using lighter bullets as well. I first saw the 327 in terms of “full snort” loads, but there’s actually a wide range of possibilities there for milder loads as well.
A point not to be ignored is that just like in the ‘50s when 357 Mag brass was hard and expensive to find and loads in 38 Spl brass got fired in a lot of 357 revolvers, the 327 offers the capacity for 32 H&R and even 32 S&W L with perfect satisfaction. In fact, I had a batch of 32 S&W L that I had accidentally loaded a bit too enthusiastically… my 327s seemed to love them!
Froggie

[Soundguy]

Comparing a 90 gr .312 bullet to a 90 gr .357 is not realist. When evaluating the performance of a cartridge the use of the load is the most important factor.

.

Most important factor? the most important factor is up to each shooter. I know people who are perfect shots.. until they see a muzzle flash.. then they are horrible shots for a bit due to their eyes not liking the muzzle flash.

So YES.. muzzle flash IS IMPORTANT.

Also of importance is velocity. Much of wound channel development is due to velocity... and less due to bullet mass.

Another issue is round count.. some 32's carry 1-2 more rounds than the average 357.

Powder burn rate makes a difference in 'felt' recoil. There are differences in slow pushes.. fast cracks.. etc.. etc. Powder burn rate and charge density also has to do with fireball in a specific gun. for instance.. in a snubby.. if you use a faster powder.. you generally get less fireball... I would choose titegroup over 4227 if I was looking at fireball in a snubby...

You can look in a book and plug numbers into a program to calculate all you want.. but the rubber meets the road with gun in hand and a ladder test... some stuff works great on paper.. by the numbers.. but not so great in real life.

[Stacts]

Powder burn rate and charge density also has to do with fireball in a specific gun. for instance.. in a snubby.. if you use a faster powder.. you generally get less fireball... I would choose titegroup over 4227 if I was looking at fireball in a snubby...

Which is why you should only use H110 in sub 2" magnums. Makes for a great flash bang!

[cwlongshot]

CW,
I first got interested in the 327 FM for heavier (115-125 gr) bullets, but am now starting to warm up to the idea of using lighter bullets as well. I first saw the 327 in terms of “full snort” loads, but there’s actually a wide range of possibilities there for milder loads as well.
A point not to be ignored is that just like in the ‘50s when 357 Mag brass was hard and expensive to find and loads in 38 Spl brass got fired in a lot of 357 revolvers, the 327 offers the capacity for 32 H&R and even 32 S&W L with perfect satisfaction. In fact, I had a batch of 32 S&W L that I had accidentally loaded a bit too enthusiastically… my 327s seemed to love them!
Froggie

The Lyman 311440 makes a dandy heavy bullet in the 327. I load with Blue Dot to 1050 from my 3.5" Birds head and just shy of 1150 from the 5.5".

https://youtu.be/tROTE5oiLEA

[Soundguy]

Which is why you should only use H110 in sub 2" magnums. Makes for a great flash bang!

A full case of 4227 makes for some neat fireworks too when in a short barrel...

[Green Frog]

CW, I got in on a group buy (remember when they worked??) for an NOE 4 banger that was supposed to be a copy of the old Ideal 3118 (118 gr). Al fiddled with the dimensions a smidge and the final result came out at a consistent 125 gr with my alloy. It’s long enough in the nose that it comes to within a 16th of an inch of the front cylinder face of my custom S&W stainless K frame “Project 616” when loaded in 327 FM brass (Starline). It was such a nice match, I took one look at it and said, “Done!” . I don’t have any experience at all with any of these extra heavy bullets some of you are using in the 327, but the fact that you can speaks to the versatility of the caliber. Too many people are still thinking of 32 revolvers as small, weak pocket pistols, but the 327 FM takes things waaay beyond that.
Froggie

[Ramjet-SS]

CW, I got in on a group buy (remember when they worked??) for an NOE 4 banger that was supposed to be a copy of the old Ideal 3118 (118 gr). Al fiddled with the dimensions a smidge and the final result came out at a consistent 125 gr with my alloy. It’s long enough in the nose that it comes to within a 16th of an inch of the front cylinder face of my custom S&W stainless K frame “Project 616” when loaded in 327 FM brass (Starline). It was such a nice match, I took one look at it and said, “Done!” . I don’t have any experience at all with any of these extra heavy bullets some of you are using in the 327, but the fact that you can speaks to the versatility of the caliber. Too many people are still thinking of 32 revolvers as small, weak pocket pistols, but the 327 FM takes things waaay beyond that.
Froggie

My 327 is also a converted K-frame 6” the 120 grain cast GC HP is accurate and potent. I took a nice mature doe at 35 yards she did the heart flutter dashed 25 yards dropped dead. I was amazed at the internal damage from the bullet.

[Soundguy]

Impossible!?!? They..they can't do that..they lack the energy..balistics..blah blah blah.

On a serious note, nice gun..nice shot!

[RJM52]

Had a bunch of .32 H&Rs over the years but just didn't bond with the caliber...when the .327 came out I jumped in with both feet and bought or tried just about everything available.

After the "smoke" cleared...I don't PC bullets like CW does...ended up with three...
Freedom Arms 97/4.25" round butt
S&W 53 6" that was converted by Jack Huntington of JRH Gunsmithing
TC Contender 12" Octagon TCA .32 H&R that CW reamed out to .327

The FA gets 120-140 grain cast bullets
S&W gets 85-95 grain cast bullets
TC gets 85 grain jacketed bullets that are running 2200 fps...

It is too bad that S&W won't make the 632-1 3" adjustable sight guns and a nice 6" Model 16. And a Colt Cobra would be dandy...

Ruger and FA are the only reason the cartridge is still alive...as they have kept the .41 Magnum alive.

Bob

[cwlongshot]

The versatility of the caliber is something thats simply not realized.

It affords some REAL power in 327 SUPER MAG but also true mouse gun in 32 shorts!!!!!!! What a range!!! I mean really. It even can shoot 32 acp!!! FIVE different power levels from five different calibers all safe ta use shoot interchangeably in revolvers!!!

Im waiting on a long rifled chamber insert for a 12 or 20 or better yet a 410 shotgun. What a assett as a camp gun or end of days scenerio!!!

Its one down fall is its loud ya sure. But far over shadowed by everything else it brings to the table for the user.

CW

[Soundguy]

Had a bunch of .32 H&Rs over the years but just didn't bond with the caliber...when the .327 came out I jumped in with both feet and bought or tried just about everything available.

After the "smoke" cleared...I don't PC bullets like CW does...ended up with three...
Freedom Arms 97/4.25" round butt
S&W 53 6" that was converted by Jack Huntington of JRH Gunsmithing
TC Contender 12" Octagon TCA .32 H&R that CW reamed out to .327

The FA gets 120-140 grain cast bullets
S&W gets 85-95 grain cast bullets
TC gets 85 grain jacketed bullets that are running 2200 fps...

It is too bad that S&W won't make the 632-1 3" adjustable sight guns and a nice 6" Model 16. And a Colt Cobra would be dandy...

Ruger and FA are the only reason the cartridge is still alive...as they have kept the .41 Magnum alive.

Bob

What got me started was a charter arms professional in 32hr.. I loved the grips and extra round...though it's a steel frame gun and a hair heavy. Then I got a charter undercoverette... Light aircraft aluminum... Fun gun in 32hr. Lastly, a ruger sp101 3" in 327fed as the cherry on top. Love all 3. Generally load and shoot more 32hr than anything..but carry the ruger loaded with 327's. Forget what my load is without hitting the notes..but seem to remember 90gr cast lead.

[dverna]

I seriously looked into moving to the .32's. That little voice we all get told me, "Sell those .357's and get a few .32 'fun guns' and a couple of .41 Mags for real work."

But I can go from mouse phart to magnum with the seven .357's I have, so it never happened. Nothing wrong with the .32's but nothing that superior about them either. At least not enough to justify getting rid of seven guns, dies and a handful of good molds...just to start the process again.

My carry guns are all 9mm or .40's semi-auto's and I have no interest in a revolver for that job so the extra round in the .32's did not matter. But if I ever get to the point I cannot operate a semi-auto, the .32 may be the ticket. Just not there yet.

But I have become a minimalist. For someone who likes a lot of different calibers adding another good one is fun. And the .32's are good.

But calibers so not live and die on what "gun nuts" desire. They must be commercially successful. Something gun rags can convince the average Joe/Jane to have. And the current trend is to push folks to semi-autos for self-defense. The majority of shooters are not reloaders and even fewer cast. What we on this forum think is not important to the viability of a caliber.

I believe the OP is correct. The .327 will continue its decline. Not because it is a poor caliber, but because people will not buy enough guns in that caliber to sustain it. And as ammunition for it becomes more expensive, fewer rounds will be sold...a vicious circle.

Just checked on Midway and the American Eagle prices are as follows:
.38 spl $27
.357 $37

.32 ACP $38
.32 S&W Long $38 Prvi-Partizan - cheapest stuff
.327 $43

The person heading to the range to put holes in paper with a revolver, who does not reload, will be paying $10+ less for a box of .38's than anything they can feed the .327.

And if they have a 9mm, it will cost less than $18/box.

[Soundguy]

I've never understood why someone would sell all of their guns and reload and gear of a particular caliber just to move to another caliber it's pretty easy to pick up one gun of another caliber and the reloading dies and then see if you like it without having to sell you know $10,000 of guns and reloading gear just to change to a caliber. As far as guns going away actually there are more guns in 32 H&R now than there were five years ago so maybe it's coming back out 32 might make a resurgence.

[dverna]

I've never understood why someone would sell all of their guns and reload and gear of a particular caliber just to move to another caliber it's pretty easy to pick up one gun of another caliber and the reloading dies and then see if you like it without having to sell you know $10,000 of guns and reloading gear just to change to a caliber.

When you get to the point I was, you might understand. When I had my "awakening" I had well over 50 guns and two dozen calibers/gauges. (.22, .22 Hornet, .223, 243, .243 WSSM. 6 mm, 25/06, 270, .30 Carbine, .30/30, .308, .30/06, .300 Win Mag, .38/55, .45/70, .32 ACP. .380 ACP, 9mm, .38/.357's, .40 S&W, .44 Mag, .45ACP, 28 ga, 20 ga, and 12 .ga).

I was set up to reload for all of them. I had two rooms of reloading stuff and components, with "safety stock" in the garage and basement. At one time I had seven progressive machines set up.

One day I "lost" a gun. Thought I may have lent it to my son, but he did not have it. Took me two days to find it. I was ready to call the police to report a lost gun when I found it. I could not be certain the last time I had seen it or used it. That would have been an embarrassing discussion with the LEO.

That was when I realized things had to change.

It can be challenging and fun to develop a couple of loads for a new gun/caliber/mold but then what? I can only shoot one gun at a time. Does that group matter if it comes from the .223 or .243 or .25/06. Does the varmint care? Will deer or black bear be deader if hit with the .270, .308 or .30/06? How many rifles do I take out to deer camp or drag through the swamp for bear? Does the dueling tree care if hit by a .380 or 9mm?

I determined all I needed were .223, .308, 9mm, .38/.357, and 12 ga. There is nothing that needs doing that those five cannot do. I cannot have more "fun" by adding another caliber. (BTW, fun for me is shooting) Everything else I owned was a toy. I can shoot those selections from light loads to near full power with three powders...Promo, Unigue and Varget (or 4064). I need to stock only SRP, LRP, SPP and .209's.

Instead of having those 50+ "toys", I reinvested the proceeds and ended up with a lifetime supply (maybe two lifetimes) of powder and primers and added a few redundant guns in the same calibers. Made more sense to me.

I need only a handful of molds. So I can afford a Master Caster and custom molds.

For me, KISS works and I have no regrets. But YMMV.

[Soundguy]

Wow..you are better than me... Heck.. I have 5 guns in my truck. I probably have 30mumble something + molds and reload for as many calibers/ gauges as those molds can support..including dripping shotgun shot. I kind of take it as a challenge finding a gun where ammo hasn't been made in years... I like to shoot too... I just shoot a different gun each time.

But agreed..ymmv

[megasupermagnum]

I'm not sure what decline you guys are talking about. The 327 is as popular now as it ever was. We are still in the shortage, so ammo is spotty. Federal came out with a new 327 load this year. Taurus came out with a new revolver this year. Ruger still makes everything they ever did. 327 ammo is on shelves. My local gun store you have a choice of 3-4 different 327 loads, plus they have 32 h&r, and 32 acp. A different store usually has 32 s&w long.

My only regret is that I didn't buy a second GP100 lipsey special when they were $650.

[Soundguy]

Charter has at least 3 revolvers out for 32hr as well.