CCW Insurance

[dverna]

Yesterday I had to deal with a belligerent trespasser. He exited his car with a beer and it got ugly quick.

Long story short. I called 911 and had to draw my pistol and threaten deadly force. I was able to retreat to the house.

He kept hanging around and yelling for me to come out. Once in the house, I switched from the pistol to the Mossberg. He then started to pound on the front door. If he had breached the door, I knew I would have to neutralize him. After a while he went and sat in his car.

There is only one road into my place, and I am at the dead end. He knew LEO's were on the way. He tried to escape down a two track that runs through my property to state land. It is blocked at a choke point about 1 mile from my place. He centered his car on the obstructions and was walking out when the LEO's confronted him.

Three County Sheriff cars and two State Police cars arrived in about 25-35 minutes. I live in the middle of nowhere, so the response time was good IMO.

The BG would not stand down when faced by five armed LEO's (two with long guns) and had to be tased. After he was tased, he resisted arrest. Once in the cruiser, he tried to kick out the window.

The BG was drunk...maybe more?? The LEO's who interviewed me told me the guy has 6 prior DUI's and is now facing 5-6 felony charges. The LEO's told me I was within my rights to draw my weapon and I will not be facing charges.

But it got me thinking...

First, I have taken a few self-defense classes with the best being a four day course at Front Sight. The training helped me keep my cool.

Second, I have sent 100's of thousands of rounds downrange. I know my capabilities and my weapons. Competitive shooting helps to deal with performing under pressure. I was not overly nervous.

Third, if the BG had been armed, and/or had a partner, it likely would have ended differently.

Fourth, what kind of idiot continues to confront an armed homeowner. Living in the middle of nowhere does not protect you from idiots.

Which leads me to.... I would like to insure myself from this kind of thing. Even a "good shoot" can get expensive.

Can anyone recommend a company to get insurance from. Cost is secondary. Recommendations from attorneys or LEO's would carry a lot of weight. If you do not want to respond on this thread, please PM me. I live in Michigan if that matters.

[Idz]

I got the USCCA insurance but fortunately never have used it. There are several policies out their which have lawyers who know about firearms. I would be interested in knowing the experiences of folks who have used their policy.
Incidentally, you answered your own question in #4, he's an IDIOT.

[firefly1957]

I am in Clare county Michigan in 2018 I had a meth head trespass swing a chain saw at me them hit me at which point he ended up at gunpoint .
When all was said and down he vandalized my truck with the chain saw assaulted two deputies damaged two police vehicles and the police station . He was convicted of several felonies with 4th time violent offender enhancement . He was out on probation for the third violent felony and was out on bail for a bar fight on top of that! His sentence for all of that 1 year county jail ! That boils down to 6 months 6 days in jail , I was not happy and told the judge so stating this man is a danger and will reoffend as soon as he gets out! He attacked two more deputies the day he got out and only ended up with 14 months in prison for that most of it in a mental health ward. Much of our court system is just plain broken ....
On the plus side our Michigan lawmakers have down a pretty good job of protecting us when we use force against a felony attack . The families can no longer sue and you did not have to withdraw to your home anymore . At one time Michigan law was so bad we had to leave our home before shooting that is gone now.
I also had some conversations with both deputies and Prosecutors there is no issues that I was using cast bullets or reloads all that matters is if the shooting was justified.

[Handloader109]

USlawshield.com is another company. Be careful out there... I'm 10 to 20 minutes from help, longer at night. Don't be afraid to pull a trigger, better you are alive and dealing with things than dead or maimed

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[Rick Hodges]

Check into a personal liability rider with your homeowner/auto insurance carrier. Allstate covered me for $1,000,000 for under $200/year. It is a personal policy and covers for any judgement in excess of any other insurance.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I've had CCW Safe for 3 years. They have different levels of coverage, and mine runs $500 per year. Originally I had Lockton's NRA insurance, but they got out of the business for a couple of years, then came back with a lower level, weaker offering. When I subscribed to CCW Safe I looked at all the plans by different companies available at the time and theirs seemed best; but I'll be doing a review before the next expiration/renewal date as a couple of companies have come and gone since I changed.

Like you, I live "out there". The only people that normally venture out that far and up my driveway/lane are IPS and Fed-Ex. I could count the others (uninvited/unexpected) on one hand, and having lived here 5 years now that's an indication of how seldom it happens. Well, here's my strange story:

Just about exactly one year ago, early afternoon, I hear "thump, thump, thump" on my front door. Normally it probably would have been open except for the screen door, but it was hot and we had the air conditioning on, so the door was closed. Just habit from years of security work, but when it's closed it's always locked. Concurrent with the thumping was a male voice yelling, "Open the door! Let me in. Let me in...I've been shot"!

Well, I went to the door with a pistol in the back of my waistband, slowly and cautiously opened the door and observed a middle aged Hispanic male leaning against the screen. He had a big tree branch in one hand. "Let me in---let me in....I've been shot." So I said, "What's the club for?" He said, "That's for self-defense, I was being chased." He tossed it off the porch to the bottom of the stairs.

He said, "Let me use the phone, please. I've got to call an ambulance. I've been shot in the head." Looking at him I could see a 22 caliber bloody spot a little below his left eye. I asked if that was his wound and he said, no, that he'd been shot in the back of the head. Next I asked him, "Do you have a gun?" He reached into his waistband under his shirt and produced what at first I thought was a 9mm, but it was one of those very realistic pellet gun copies of a CZ pistol---the kind that occasionally gets man-sized kids killed by nervous policemen. I said, "Give me the gun, sit down on the deck chair, I'll get my phone and call 911 for you." "Oh, thank you, thank you, finding you is a real miracle." So I set his gun on my kitchen table, got my phone, called 911, told the operator briefly what had happened and asked her to dispatch a deputy. Then I gave the phone to him, and he related to the dispatcher the following tale:

He and his son had gone mountain biking to a local attraction called the Beaver Pond. They live about half a mile from me on a different road. He is an ethnic Mexican, and when younger he had married a Puerto Rican lady, with whom he had a son, and with which boy she left him after a year and moved back to Puerto Rico. They stayed in touch and sometimes he exchanged letters with the boy as he grew. When he reached age 18 he seemed to be having a lot of "no father figure problems" and started getting into trouble. Our shooting victim had remarried to an Anglo woman who suggested ("Who's sorry now...(apologies to Brenda)" that they invite him to come and live with them here in the wilderness and see if they couldn't help him mature.

He showed up, and they got him a job at the local truck stop, but he quit a few days after starting, "the boss doesn't like me". He got involved with a religious movement, decided to be baptized, but just as they were about to dunk him he backed out and never went back. He was always wearing cammies and buying swords and knives from outfits like Bud-K (mail order) and she started getting worried.

Well, we're back to the Beaver Pond now. They got there and walked down the path to observe those hardworking Oregon beavers doing what beavers do. Then, walking back up the trail the boy, lagging slightly behind his father, demanded to know why his father had left his mother. The father sad, "It didn't exactly happen that way..." and ZAP! he got shot in the back of the head with the .22 Cal. pellet pistol. The father turned around and ZAP! he got shot again under the left eye. The father, having been an amateur boxer in his youth, knocked the son down, took the pistol, ran up the trail to his bike, and boogied down the road until he came to my driveway--the first one encountered when emerging from the wilderness.

After about 30 minutes the fellow's wife showed up looking for him, as the son had returned home where there were several "for real" loaded guns and she wanted to warn him not to come home. About 10 minutes after that a USFS Law Enforcement Officer showed up, listened to the wife and demanded that I give him the gun taken from the father. I declined (politely) as he had no jurisdiction and wasn't going to be the investigating officer. He was both irritated and irritating, and soon left. After about 45 minutes from my call to 911 the local volunteer fire dept. ambulance showed up. They transported the father clear to Bend, about 89 miles distant. The deputy finally arrived almost exactly one hour after the 911 call. Very professional fellow, I give him high marks. I gave him a quick summary, the gun, and he was gone in 10 minutes.

Two days later, "knock, knock, knock---Can we come in?" It was the victim/father and his wife with a gift basket. We sat and chatted for about an hour, very nice people. But in the last year I've only run into the Mrs. once at the Post Office. Naturally I asked for an update.

Seems like the son was booked into the County Jail on three felonies. His mother, in Puerto Rico, arranged to have him bailed out, and they were living in Rhode Island. Supposedly he had a trial date set several months in the future. The father still has the first pellet stuck to the back of his skull, and for some reason they didn't want to remove it. Odd...I wonder about lead poisoning.

Probably two months later I was in front of my shop greasing the bucket lift on my tractor, getting it ready to move snow in a few weeks, when this young fellow in an electric car got to the top of my driveway before I spotted him. He parked it and took his time in exiting, had a case slung over his shoulder. I suspect it was a recorder and camera. He approached and showed me his private investigator license, then asked me if I knew (I'll put XXX XXXXXX here for the name, but I honestly can't remember it) who was said to have shot his father a month or two ago. I said that I didn't know him but had heard of him. Then he said that he was representing (XXXX XXXX) a female public defender (again, ? on the name) who was representing the son, and would I like to talk about it? "Nope. Bye." He just said, "O.K.--no problem", got in his car and left.

To date, there's no more to tell. Probably the end of the story, the way things are today. Back "in the day" 10 years would have been about right.

Anyway, if you can afford it, you're a sucker not to carry CCW insurance. If trouble can find me way out in the woods........

DG

[Krh1326]

Altered state of mind. Not just booze, or drugs, or what have you… you would be surprised what can put someone out of their mind.

I did twenty and out, in FD. Was heavy rescue, and I was an EMT. I’ve seen people completely batty, and from things you’d never think of. I’ve had police cuff and start to arrest patients, that I’ve just cut out of a wreck, until I realize it’s A hyperglycemic diabetic…

Not justifying… just adding …

[dannyd]

I carry CCW Safe too but remember it's insurance just like your car and house and never as good as you think it should be in an emergency. But I don't leave home without it or insurance on my guns.

[dverna]

DG,

Interesting tale. I am also very remote and isolated. We have a number of weapons around the house just in case. Most used is a 10/22 for varmints with four legs. First time I had to deal with a two legged pest.

I am leaning towards CCW Safe after a bit or research so appreciate your comments.

Be safe mountain warrior!

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Thanks. Do the same.

DG

[bedbugbilly]

First, I'm glad that thevissue was resolved without you having to fire your weapon, but it could have easily escalated . . . you had an angel on your shoulder.

Second . . . I think your post is an important one as a reminder to us all and a good reminder that we SHOULD have insurance for the reasons you state.

Five years ago, while we still lived on the farm, my wife went grocery shopping on a Monday morning as she always does. I was in the basement doing some reloading and suddenly, I heard our two small dogs raising a ruckus and barking their heads off. I knew that my wife hadn't been gone long enough to be home again so I went upstairs to see why the dogs were so upset. At the head of the stairs, I glanced through our enclosed porch to the entry door and didn't see anyone. I glanced out the kitchen window and saw a younger black guy walking through the back yard towards the deck and the garage. Then the one dog ran into the living room, barking and upset so I went across the kitchen where I could glance out the front of the house and I saw a young white gal walking across in front of the house towards the garage. What the heck? I knew they weren't from the power company as the meter reader had been there the previous week. Then I did something very stupid.

Without thinking, I walked quickly to the sunroom to the entry door and stepped out. Much to my surprise, they was a sedan pulled up tight to the garage door and the black guy was sitting in the passenger seat. The girl was almost to the car and I shouted to her asking her what they were doing and what they wanted. She walked right over up on the deck and proceeded to tell me they were looking for a girl they had met at a party. I asked who what the person's name was and she gave me a name, smooth as silk. It was obvious that she was lying. I told her that there was nobody on our road by that name and then curtly told her that she had better be careful pulling in to people's driveway and walking around houses as most of us in our neighborhood carry and don't take kindly to people on our property that aren't invited. She got in the car and left. I felt upset as I had been caught unprepared mentally as I had been busy with my mind on other things.

Later, I went into our township police station to tell them about it, but the Chief was at a meeting and the two offices on duty that day were on a call to a bad PI accident. I was busy the next two days and I left a message but they were tied up with some suspect interviews and then were serving several warrants. That night, I opened up our local paper and on the front page was a picture of the guy and girl - they had been arrested and charged with a string of B & Es where they had stolen jewelry and guns in three counties.

The next day. I was able to catch the Chief at the station and I told him what had happened at our house. He said that they were aware of them, but so far, they hadn't;t been in our township but they were assisting in the investigation. He then asked me if I was carrying when it happened (he knows I'm licensed in MI an AZ) and I told him I wasn't as I was in the house at the time. He then advised me that I should be because there were more and more home invasions. I didn't need to be told what could have happened had I been in the basement, they had broken in and I had gone upstairs to get a drink or use the bathroom only to run into two intruders.

Things happen and they can happen anywhere at anytime. It reminded me to always be alert and aware and react in a calm but calculated manner. And I knew better. I worked ambulance and fire rescue and I saw more than my share of injuries, homicides and shooting from situations that escalated out of control as well as home invasions that resulted in injury and/or death.

The salt and pepper team that visited my house to case it were both heroin addicts who obviously had no respect for others and luckily, in all of their B & Es had never hit a residence where the occupant was home. If not for our dogs making a fuss, if they had broken in and there was a confrontation, there is no doubt that there might have been a confrontation and I would be no match against two younger people. It is that incident that made me chage from a 5 shot J frame to a Glock 26 for more capacity.

The moral of that story and the OP's is simple . . . you just never know . . . so train and train some more . . . hope to heck you never have to use your firearm, but just as you prepare yourself with the proper tools to handle such an incident, make sure you have your ducks in a row to protect yourself with insurance just as you cover your car or your house against unforeseen incidents.

[MrWolf]

I also have CCW safe. Good luck figuring out what fits you best.
Ron

[lightman]

When I retired I had a joint meeting between my Wife and I, my Accountant, an Attorney specializing in Estate Planning and my Financial advisor. They all recommended an Umbrella Policy. I don't remember the cost but it was pretty reasonable. I got it through my regular insurance agent.

[M-Tecs]

Gald things worked out with you having to use deadly force.

One more part to this equation. The use of force is a state issue and states vary greatly in what you can and can't do. A couple of states take a very narrow view of what is legal and illegal brandishing is. The point is know your state requirements.

https://www.uslawshield.com/everythi...t-brandishing/

[Handloader109]

For those of you that just deem an umbrella liability policy adder to your home insurance is good enough, you'd better read it really closely. Most will NOT cover you if a gun is involved and you are a shooter. Defensive use or not.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[MarkP]

Maybe he was hoping someone would shoot him that day.

A friend of mine told me about a guy that would not show his hands when confronted by an armed officer. Not sure how it worked out but no shots were fired and he was cuffed. On the ride to the county jail he said I can not go back to jail I wish you would have shot me.

He was breaking into lake homes more than 1/2 of the homes are vacation homes and usually un-occupied in the off-season.

[1I-Jack]

Anyone in Washington state have CCW insurance? If so, who? I looked for it but it seems that some legal stunt that our bonehead state AG pulled made all these insurance companies drop WA state.

[farmerjim]

Uscca

[dverna]

We went to church this morning.

The sign we installed to indicating the drive is a private road and not to trespass had been removed. The T post was pulled.

My neighbor came over and told me a Jeep had been following him down our road. My neighbor is kitty corner to me. When my neighbor slowed down to make his turn he started to back up to ask the person in the Jeep if he was lost. (We are at a dead end) The Jeep did a quick turn and took off.

My fiancé is distraught.

[Wag]

For those of you that just deem an umbrella liability policy adder to your home insurance is good enough, you'd better read it really closely. Most will NOT cover you if a gun is involved and you are a shooter. Defensive use or not.

This. Absolutely.

Also, READ the policy and understand it. There are some good ones out there but some are, shall we just say, less good and can leave you in a lurch.

The thread reminds me I need to get something going for me, too.

--Wag--