So I need some help...Just got into progressive, wet tumbling, and Lee APP...HELP!!!!

[NyFirefighter357]

I wet pin clean and I do deprime in advance. Not so much that I want my primer pockets spotless but I find that my brass dries much faster without old primers in place. I rely on hot Florida sun to dry my brass, nothing mechanical. Without doing something else I gotta wonder how you could be certain the water that made it into the primer cup was fully dried.

This as well as without the primer removed depending on the caliber it traps water & the pins in somewhat a vacuum, preventing the pins & water from flowing in/out while tumbling. I have had cases fill with pins & need to be shaken out.

[rustyshooter]

Remove primers unless your going to swage .40 cases to .45 boolits. Then you’ll leave them in. About “baking” to dry. Look at my buddy’s post #15 in this thread. 2 minutes with a hair dryer and brass is hot.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...-tumbler-users

[dverna]

If a picture is worth 1000 words then two pictures will save you from having to read and get convinced, even more:





Two things....1. bling and clean is pretty and keeps your tools and guns clean, and pretty primer holes means you don't have to use a primer hole cleaner separately....plus 2. the wet polished brass dries way faster without primers in the holes.

I use the APP for depriming before wet polishing alright, but I also use it for swaging military brass as done in the first picture. (7.62 LC brass) My bench swager is way slow in comparison, and it does the job just as good if you follow Lee's directions very carefully. I wasn't that impressed at first with swaging, but then I decided to read the directions carefully....doh....much better. If I was set up to cast my own boolits I would do that too.

The best part of an APP is case/bullet feeder. Unheard of on a single stage press.....someday all single stage presses will have one.....really speeds things up.

Don: I loaded without bling for 40 years....no it isn't necessary. What can I say......bling improved my attitude. Better attitude better shooting. Even better now that my eyes have faded. Would not go back....but to each their own....

Key words you used “it isn’t necessary”.

I am lazy so the extra work is not warranted. I can hardly stand using the old way to clean brass so washing, rinsing and drying is not happening. Having to deprime first is another nail in the coffin. More wasted time and reduced productivity.

I use Dillon progressives and they seem to work ok with tumbled brass. Maybe with a less forgiving press it would matter....I do not know, and is not important to me.

Nothing wrong with spending time to get pretty brass for those wired that way.

I find it humorous folks will add a bullet feeder to increase productivity but take a 50% reduction in productivity by depriming as a separate operation and doing the “wet thing”.

Anyway, nice job on your brass. It does look pristine!!

[Stopsign32v]

I would not wet tumble without removing the primers. If you store your brass you will have "ringers" when you remove the primers. The face of the primer will be removed and the primer walls will stay in the pocket.

I'd set up the APP with a universal deprimer.

I store all my brass dirty honestly. I don't clean until I'm ready to use. I just popped out 7 primers from some wet tumbled brass from Saturday and the inside of the pocket looked squeaky clean except for the face where the hole is.

I think I will just continue to deprime on my Loadmaster. Moving a step away from the progressive press seems to defeat the purpose anyways.

[Kenstone]

I have decided (for me) that ALL the priming problems on ANY progressive (I use 4 different progressives) can be traced back to primer debris or crimped primers.

Crimped primers get sucked back into the pocket and when indexed over the new primer, creates a stoppage.
The primer smooge from de-priming on a progressive will accumulate and cause priming problems and stoppages too.

By de-priming before wet tumbling, I can feel a crimped primer (often gets sucked back in) and deal with it then and there by chamfering the pocket.
I cannot distinguish my brass from range brass that I might have picked up, so I de-prime all brass because I can fix the crimps as they are found, without tedious inspection to find them.
I deprime in my drill press, but your APP is perfect for de-priming.

jmo,
.
Edit: Good luck on your quest moving forward.

[GWS]

Buddy, I just had to say. " That's some Proud Brass!" I strive for that but, never looks that good.

Well I learned from DryFlash3 who moderates at AR15.com. Starting with a Thumblers Tumbler B, He fills a large plastic 2 Liter soft drink bottle (top sliced off at where it starts narrowing) with brass (same whatever brass you use). Then tosses in about 5 lbs of stainless steel pins, one .45acp case full of Lemishine, and a 2 second squeeze of Dawn dishwashing liquid.....finally fills it nearly full of COLD water. That's exactly what I do, because it works....least with my local pretty darned hard New Mexico water. I usually tumble for about 2 hours, then rinse in clean cold water, while using my RCBS brass separator to separate the pins......I lay it out to dry on the Sunny back patio....and that's it.

Last winter when it was below zero, I washed and separated some 9mm in the Laundry sink.....I know, sewer forever contaminated....but that was only once...I usually bling brass in the summer outside. But I videoed it for my grandson....it was his 9mm. It was a bit hard being a smallish sink, but it got done. Here's the video to prove Dryflash's method works really well. Anyway here's the video.



I know bling is anal.....but to these old eyes it's worth the extra time. I'll never go back to the dull reloads again. And now having an APP and TylerR's quickchange case feeder, depriming is so fast, I wouldn't think of tumbling with primers in. I tried that....one time.

The APP's "extra time" to deprime is pretty darned easy time!

[wilecoyote]

No. On the APP you’ll want to use a universal decapping die and not a sizing die. The brass is dirty at this point, running it into a sizing die would be exactly what you’re trying to avoid. So the first station on the progressive still sizes.

...this^^^

[GWS]

...this^^^

Yes! See my last video doing .357mag.

[Finster101]

But what would I use for the first hole on the Lee Loadmaster?

I use a Lee universal de-capping die on dirty brass. That way my sizing die does not get scratched up. I keep it on a tool head just by itself and that way can easily use it on any caliber. Leave your sizing die in the first hole and size the cleaned brass. A tool head and de-capping die are pretty cheap, and you can use the case feeder if you have one to really speed up the process.

[Stopsign32v]

My sizing is done on the second stage of the loadmaster

[jetinteriorguy]

But what would I use for the first hole on the Lee Loadmaster?

Sizing. Just consider the decapping pin optional. I also use a spare seating die backed out a couple turns to center the case in the second station. This helps assure your case is in the proper position when priming it.

[Stopsign32v]

Sizing. Just consider the decapping pin optional. I also use a spare seating die backed out a couple turns to center the case in the second station. This helps assure your case is in the proper position when priming it.

Sizing is done in station 2. Reason for this is the sizing die lines up the press for the primer seating. So sizing and priming are done together.

[jetinteriorguy]

Sizing is done in station 2. Reason for this is the sizing die lines up the press for the primer seating. So sizing and priming are done together.

Technically station one is for sizing and depriming at the same time. That’s why the carrier is open under station one so primers are collected in the bottom of the hollow ram. You wouldn’t be able to do this in station number two since the decapping rod can’t be used in conjunction with the priming ram. This is the way Lee says to set it up, they also suggest using a spare seating die in station number two to center the case for proper primer seating. You back the die off enough to prevent it from crimping the case while priming. You can prime in station number two without any die, they merely suggest using one for better results.

[Finster101]

You can make reloading simple or hard. The choice is yours. You have been given many viable options but seem stuck on a choice you don't seem happy with but don't want to change. Good luck on your journey.

[Stopsign32v]

You can make reloading simple or hard. The choice is yours. You have been given many viable options but seem stuck on a choice you don't seem happy with but don't want to change. Good luck on your journey.

Please clarify

And your post is the only one that has been posted that is of no help, congratulations on that.

[Stopsign32v]

Technically station one is for sizing and depriming at the same time. That’s why the carrier is open under station one so primers are collected in the bottom of the hollow ram. You wouldn’t be able to do this in station number two since the decapping rod can’t be used in conjunction with the priming ram. This is the way Lee says to set it up, they also suggest using a spare seating die in station number two to center the case for proper primer seating. You back the die off enough to prevent it from crimping the case while priming. You can prime in station number two without any die, they merely suggest using one for better results.

Right but I use the sizing die for the same reason Lee suggests a spare seating die in station 2, to center the case for proper priming. Station 4 seats and station 5 crimps.

I think depriming off the press universally and then cleaning might have enough benefits to just leave station 1 empty.

[megasupermagnum]

I personally size my own brass dirty. If I'm loading range pickup brass from who knows where, I will clean it first, but that's mostly sloshing in a bucket. I'm not worried about the soot from my own brass. So I run a sizer in my Lee APP a lot of times. For bottleneck rounds I would then trim and do whatever else. After all that is done, I then clean.

Dverna is right, brass doesn't have to sparkle. My own opinion though is that if you are going to clean you brass, you may as well get the primer pockets clean. We are way beyond the days of dry tumbling. It takes zero extra effort to have a wet tumbler or ultrasonic cleaner do the work for you with no drawbacks. I don't run mine so long that they look like new brass, and sometimes I have a spec of carbon in a primer pocket, but for the most part all my brass is quite clean. I too waited too long to go to wet cleaning. I would never dry tumble brass again. It doesn't do anything functional at all. You may as well just load dirty brass, which honestly you could load dirty brass with minimal problems. With something like 9mm luger or 45 acp or 38 special, I could see why you might be willing to skip cleaning for the extra productivity. Those cartridges are basically fool proof. I mostly load magnum handguns and bottleneck rifle, so I'm not willing to just send those through a press without at least a little checking over.

There is nothing wrong with sizing on station 2 like you are.

[Stopsign32v]

I personally size my own brass dirty. If I'm loading range pickup brass from who knows where, I will clean it first, but that's mostly sloshing in a bucket. I'm not worried about the soot from my own brass. So I run a sizer in my Lee APP a lot of times. For bottleneck rounds I would then trim and do whatever else. After all that is done, I then clean.

Dverna is right, brass doesn't have to sparkle. My own opinion though is that if you are going to clean you brass, you may as well get the primer pockets clean. We are way beyond the days of dry tumbling. It takes zero extra effort to have a wet tumbler or ultrasonic cleaner do the work for you with no drawbacks. I don't run mine so long that they look like new brass, and sometimes I have a spec of carbon in a primer pocket, but for the most part all my brass is quite clean. I too waited too long to go to wet cleaning. I would never dry tumble brass again. It doesn't do anything functional at all. You may as well just load dirty brass, which honestly you could load dirty brass with minimal problems. With something like 9mm luger or 45 acp or 38 special, I could see why you might be willing to skip cleaning for the extra productivity. Those cartridges are basically fool proof. I mostly load magnum handguns and bottleneck rifle, so I'm not willing to just send those through a press without at least a little checking over.

There is nothing wrong with sizing on station 2 like you are.

Doesn't seem to be a right or wrong like you say. But I got to thinking about it and figured why not clean the primer pocket only because I want to deprime on the press? Clean brass is good brass I'd say.

[GWS]

I've never used your press, so I needed a little education....and I found these videos that explained what I was confused about....why in the world you would think you might want to size in station 2. That's not done in most other progressives, so I was confused.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV1uSGJwUSU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjeyRAKtG3g

Now I see said the blind man. On the Loadmaster, Lee recommends depriming first in station one (universal deprimer usually), then removing the depriming rod from the sizer before sizing in station two! It appears that Lee Loadmaster works best that way where the case is sized and centered then primed while so centered, otherwise there is alignment problems. So that's why sizing is in #2. This is foreign to most progressive users, who size in one and prime in two.

Therefore if you already have your spent primers removed before you load (as in depriming before tumbling)....then station one is not used at all.

Then in station three Lee uses a powder-thru expander to expand while dumping the powder.....the only choice. You can't use an expander die because you run out of stations unless you seat and crimp in one station. Which is possible, just not as easy to get it just right.

Some reloaders who want bling brass, deprime all the brass on their main press first.....then load. But since you have an APP too, and you deprime with it....then station one is not needed.

On MY presses I size on one (with no deprimer rod), then use an M-die to expand on two, and prime on two's downstroke, then 3 is used only to charge (no powder-thru expander), then 4 and 5 are seating and taper crimping. M-die seems to align enough....but mine are green presses. Why M-die? Because I prefer their straight wall pockets to the bevels normal expanders make.

[Stopsign32v]

I've never used your press, so I needed a little education....and I found these videos that explained what I was confused about....why in the world you would think you might want to size in station 2. That's not done in most other progressives, so I was confused.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV1uSGJwUSU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjeyRAKtG3g

Now I see said the blind man. On the Loadmaster, Lee recommends depriming first in station one (universal deprimer usually), then removing the depriming rod from the sizer before sizing in station two! It appears that Lee Loadmaster works best that way where the case is sized and centered then primed while so centered, otherwise there is alignment problems. So that's why sizing is in #2. This is foreign to most progressive users, who size in one and prime in two.

Therefore if you already have your spent primers removed before you load (as in depriming before tumbling)....then station one is not used at all.

Then in station three Lee uses a powder-thru expander to expand while dumping the powder.....the only choice. You can't use an expander die because you run out of stations unless you seat and crimp in one station. Which is possible, just not as easy to get it just right.

Exactly