ever had your gun safe broken into?

[44minimum]

I'm in the process of looking for a new gun safe.I'm interested in opinions, both good and bad. I would especially like to hear if you have one that has been broken into and what the brand was. right at the moment I'm considering one made by heritage, Cabelas,redhead, and canon.I'm trying to get one that is fire rated for an hour. my max price is perhaps $1200.

Lee 22 hornet dies come with three dies. Is the third one a factory crimp die? I'll be shooting in a New England firearms handi rifle, why would it need a crimp?

[JSH]

I have a Cannon. It is a pretty good one for the $. I have not had a sfe broken into nor do I know anyone that has. A good friend of mine is a lock smith and I will say this. Don't buy a small safe because it is easy to move around.

My locksmith friend told of a situation where a person had a small safe that was jam packed full of guns and misc. $$. Well the theif just used a 2 wheel cart and loaded into his truck. To my knowledge none of it has ever been recovered. If you want to really have your cage rattled, they make plasma cutters that will fit in a brief case and slice right through 3/8 plate.................................
A friend of mine bought two of the smaller ones instead of one big one, he did end up bolting them togehter.
It still just amazes me as to the folks that have several K in "toys" just laying around. They will say I just don't have the funds for a safe, well back off on your other purchases and get one. One of the el cheapo stack on safes is better than nothing.
Truth be known a good safe will do it's job and never wear out, nor will it fall in value. A safe is about as good an investment there is in my book.
Jeff

[Johnch]

I have never had the safe broken into .
It had a few scratches where they tryed to pry .
Dad came over and scared them away .

Only real damage was a broken window .

Cabela's and Redhead ( Basspro shops , I think ) don't make safes .
They buy from the lowest bidder .

I bought a localy produced safe ( Toledo ,Ohio ) that is suposed to be as good or better than the same priced mass marketed safes .
I bought the bigest safe that would fit into a closet .
6' x 4' x 24"
The Door weighs about 400 lb and I bolted the safe to the wall and floor .

A freinds gardge burned last year , fire contained to his car and 1 wall .
But the safe was on that wall .
The 1 hr Browning safe failed to fully protect his guns .
He had scortched stocks , melted synthitic stocks , melted syn. holsters ect .
The fire was out in 30-45 min .

Johnch

[Scrounger]

I was robbed about 25 years ago. Then I bought a safe. My first one was a heavy 600 pounds empty model. It was secure but a real bear when I changed residences. When I moved out of California, I sold it rather than move it again. Up here I bought two smaller, lighter safes at WalMart, they cost about $350 apiece. Over the years I have come to the philosophy that there is no such thing as a safe that can't be broken into, or that they can't convince you to open for them by putting a gun to your wife's or child's head. A safe is just something to stop the casual burglar or juvenile break-ins. If they're serious or professional, they WILL get into your safe. For that reason I consider a fairly light, thin-skinned, unsophisticated safe adequate for the job intended. Buy insurance, it's cheaper.

[Beau Cassidy]

All I can say from when I used to sell them when I worked in gun store way back is get a safe about twice the size you think you need. For example- looking at a 12 gun interior? You will do good to get 7 in one, etc. There is also no substitute for heft. Mine is 1200 lbs. Cost about as much as 1 1/2 of my good rifles so it is cheap insurance. I had it in a second story apartment when I got it. We had to winch it up. 2 civil engineer buddies of mine helped me. The maintenance man crapped a brick when he found out we were doing it because he lived under us. He wanted me to get some engineers to see if it was safe. He got a little pissed when I told him there were 2 helping me. My 2 buddies gladly explained to him that even with the estimated weight of a full safe, I was only at 125 lbs. Sq/ft- well below the industry standard of- I believe it was- 150 lbs. Sq/ft. As I remember, it was much harrier getting it down.

Beau

[Beau Cassidy]

Also. Remember, a safe is just a deterrant.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Once several little aspiring crminals got into my house. Total damage one broken wndow, total stolen one flashlight, but they left a good kitchen knife which I still use. Pretty good trade. My twelve-gun Liberty safe saved my guns. My only regret is that I didn't buy a bigger safe to start with, guns have a way of accumulating!

[Dale53]

I am a retired Insurance Claims Representative. Most of us will never run into a real safe cracker (professional). We mostly need to protect our possessions from the local crack heads. I have had a good bit of experience with a number of different types of gun safes and regular safes. Our gunclub was broken into and the first thing a criminal does is knock off the combination lock. We have a couple of Tread Lock safes. They are by no means the most expensive around, but it has a good security system. When you knock off the combination the massive bolts jam and it would take a welding torch or plasma torch to get inside. However, a coded phone call and we were able to repair the safe with the repair kit that Treadlock sent us FOR FREE! It doesn't take the most expensive safe to do a good job.

It is extremely important to bolt the safe to the floor and the wall, if possible. Otherwise, as was mentioned by someone above, they'll just cart the safe off. I had a 1000 lb safe taken away from a car dealership. Everyone at the dealership thought it was too heavy to move....

You need to pair the safe with a good alarm system. The combination of a good alarm and a decent safe is hard to defeat by the average goon.

Good luck!

[imashooter2]

An interesting thread on the subject on a different board:

http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=...=192071&page=1

Before the poster's boss made him remove the pictures, they showed 2 safes with the doors pried open. On the Liberty Colonial 23, the frame was bent until the door bolts would slide past it using two 18 inch crowbars. On the Remington (made by Liberty) they showed that the frame in the door supporting the bolts failed and the bolts bent back at an angle allowing entry. That was done with two 14 inch screwdrivers, and the screwdrivers were not even bent!

[9.3X62AL]

The heat ratings of 1200* F are kind of a joke--temps in residential fires can reach 2700* F for long enough durations in venturified recesses to render a safe's contents destroyed. Don't count on the "fire protection" element of gun safes to protect precious contents.

That said, I've never seen a gun safe significantly attacked during a residential burglary. I've seen a couple of them carted off because they weren't lag-bolted to floor and/or walls, but that was all. The day of the "safecracker" is largely at an end--anyone skilled enough or motivated enough to incorporate that depth of learning into his/her M.O. targets higher-value items than firearms.

[BCB]

I just ordered a Champion safe. The person who sells them is a professional locksmith and makes his living being a locksmith. I don’t know if these safes are any good or not, but the locksmith seems to think so anyhow. One thing that is certain is the fact that he most likely can work on it should a problem occur. That is one reason I stayed away from gun stores. There may be a gunsmith there, but I don’t know about a locksmith...
Regardless, I have one on the way. Ain’t cheap and it will be in the basement. It will take one hell of a goon to cart it out of the basement!!! It weighs in at nearly 1/2 ton...
I checked on insurance with my homeowner’s policy, and it won’t take many years to get the price of the safe back. Gun insurance is quite expensive from what I have found, at least with the company I insure my house with. And so this gun safe issue goes…BCB

[D.Mack]

Possitivly bolt it down. My nieghbor lost his on the second break in, when they came back with the proper moving tools . On the first trip they tried to move it with a regular dolly, they left it bent and useless. Also Keep an inventory of what is inside in a separate location. He's now having trouble with his insurance company, because he cant prove he had what was inside, all of his bills of sale, and inventory list went with the safe. they took some guns he had owned for 30 years, plus the p0ink slips to two cars, that they also stole.
As for the third die on 22 hornet, yes it is a crimp die, and even with a handi-rifle, use it. All of my 22 hornet loads shoot better with a light crimp, it helps with a more consistent ignition. Another thing with the hornet, if you are shooting mild to moderate loads, try small pistol primers, they usually give better accuracy. With the full house loads and above the book, use rifle primers, but dont expect a long case life. DM

[PatMarlin]

I bought my safe at "Big R" Thanksgiving Day for 1/3 of the cost normally sold. Talk about a deal!!

Also what I did was take 2- heavy 3/8" 6x6 angle iron pieces the width of the safe. Lined up and clamped them up against the floor joists below, and maked the holes from inside the safe down through the floor.

The I drilled the mounting holes for the safe, and welded the heavy bolts onto the plate- completely around each bolt head. Then I drilled a couple more holes to bolt the angle steel into the floor joists.

Then you bring your 6x6 angle back under the house and slide the welded bolts up into the safe. Bolt from inside the safe, and then bolt to the floor joists.

They gotta bull doze the house to get the safe out..

[McLintock]

I've got a Browning Wide Body and always felt pretty safe with it, but a recent newspaper article on the cops rounding up a burglury ring in the area kind of buggered me. They showed many of the tools the ring had been using and one of them was a metal cutting setup like they use for cutting open cars to get trapped people out. I was thinking that would go through any exposed hinge bolts or even cut through the door and locking bolts if they had enough time. Pretty noisy but someone good with it could use it pretty fast; and even go through hardened stuff due to grinding instead of trying to cut it. So, if a safe with enclosed hinges were available that would be a consideration. On my Browning, two cuts on the hinge bolts and you'd be in in about 5-6 mins.
McLintock

[grumble]

Good ideas. Me, I'm too cheap. I got an old '50's vintage upright freezer. welded the exterior hinge pins and put on a hasp and "high security" (yeah, right!) padlock. I put it in a closet, and had to take off the door frame to allow it to fit through the door. Not the world's best security, but more than enough for any likely burglars in this rural area.

I was going to attach the "safe" to the floor joists, but got to thinking -- if I were going to steal the safe, which is against an exterior corner of the house, I'd just use a chain saw or sledge hammer to cut a hole in the wall, then chain the safe to a pickup and drive off, tearing out the whole wall. If the safe were to be attached to the joists, it would really tear things up. So I left it unattached, reasoning that there'd be little point in losing both my guns AND the house.

[imashooter2]

-snip-
On my Browning, two cuts on the hinge bolts and you'd be in in about 5-6 mins.
McLintock

No hinge side door bolts on the Browning? That is pretty unusual for even a low end safe. I like an exposed hinge for the increased door opening.

[MGySgt]

I have a 28 gun Fort Knox - no exterior hinges, S&G lock, 1 in Cross bolts - 850 pounds empty. Had to take the door off the bed rooom I have it in to get it in. There is now a Reloading bench next to it, no space on that side and the wall is on the other side of it. Also a work bench is built near the door. That safe is not coming out of that room unless a lot of things get destroyed in the process.

I also have a alarm with a motion sensor in that room, so if they come through the window instead of the door, well - the alarm will still go off when they enter that room.

As some others have stated here - You can not stop a professional - just slow him (or her) down and make the time in the house too long to make away with it. The Crack Heads won't bother it - BUT you do have to remember to LOCK it.

Drew

Drew

[McLintock]

MGySgt,
Better re-think about the crack heads, the burglery ring broken up here was doing it mainly to keep their meth supplys up.
And imashooter2, the Browning does have exterior hinges, but they are a pin enclosed by casings welded to the safe body and door, split in the middle. One small cut on both hinges at the juncture point and they'd be in. My normal metal cut off saw goes through a 1/2" bolt or piece of bar stock in about 20-30 seconds; scares the hell out of me.
McLintock

[imashooter2]

MGySgt,
Better re-think about the crack heads, the burglery ring broken up here was doing it mainly to keep their meth supplys up.
And imashooter2, the Browning does have exterior hinges, but they are a pin enclosed by casings welded to the safe body and door, split in the middle. One small cut on both hinges at the juncture point and they'd be in. My normal metal cut off saw goes through a 1/2" bolt or piece of bar stock in about 20-30 seconds; scares the hell out of me.
McLintock

Most doors have bolts on the hinge side same as the bolts on the opening side. If yours only depends on the hinges to secure that side of the door, shame on Browning! You should be able to cut the hinges completely off the door and have the safe still secure.

[Gary Carter]

Regardless, I have one on the way. Ain’t cheap and it will be in the basement. It will take one hell of a goon to cart it out of the basement!!! It weighs in at nearly 1/2 ton...
…BCB

God for you putting it in the basement! Heat in a structure fire goes up by having it in the basement you have it in the coolest spot in the structure in case of a fire. Also in the basement it is as low as it could go. As a fire fighter I have seen structures fully ingulfed in less than 10 minutes and collapsing in under 20. Just because a person lives in a modern construction home doesn't mean that they will stand longer. Engineered trusses have been known to fail even before the actual fire reaches them, the metal plates heat up from radiant heat, char the wood they are driven into and fall out. OSB that is so popular has a glue that will start to soften at only 500 deg. F. we tryed to vent one house and after the initial whole was made we could enlarge it with just our hands. Just imagine what kind of impact damage you can have from even a 8' fall, even worse if located on higher levels. If a basement is not an option an exterior wall is the next best location due to the fact that you may be able to hook to it and yank it out through the wall in the event of a fire.