45 Colt Rifle - heavy cast boolits in 1885 High-Wall

[olddude38special]

Hodgdon was good enough to dig this week and report that there was a single pistol test table they shared for Titegroup (not for IMR4227) for a 300gn cast boolit in .45 Colt with pressures around 14,000 and it shows the charge with sized to .454 @ 3.7gn - 4.7gn Titegroup, velocity 614-737 fps.

For the 1885 High-Wall in particular, how about some feedback on molds and throwing .45 300gn lead. Anyone been down this road?



In the mean time I have a NOE .454 caliber Plain Base 292 Grains tumble lube design coming in.

[Nobade]

Lyman made a mould for the 45-90 that comes out around 300 grains and .455" or so. I bought it for the 45-70 and it was pretty bad in that but works wonderfully in my 45 Colt Marlin rifle, and carries enough lube for either smokeless or black powder.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello olddude38special,

I've been shooting the RCBS 45-300-FN (.458") in both my Uberti 1885
and my Ruger #3 both in 45-70 with very good results.
Both rifles kick like a mule, but with the 300 gr bullet, it's bearable.

AntiqueSledMan.

[Bent Ramrod]

I don’t have a rifle in .45 Colt, but the 300-gr 0.454” rounded flatnose “GP” boolit from the mould that Lyman made for their Great Plains muzzleloading rifle shoots very well in my 4-3/4” Cimarron .45 single action clone.

The increase in recoil is noticeable, but not objectionable with normal powder charges for the caliber.

If Lyman doesn’t make the mould any more, Accurate ought to have something close.

[olddude38special]

Hodgdon was good enough to dig this week and report that there was a single pistol test table they shared for Titegroup (not for IMR4227) for a 300gn cast boolit in .45 Colt with pressures around 14,000 and it shows the charge with sized to .454 @ 3.7gn - 4.7gn Titegroup, velocity 614-737 fps.

UPDATE: I'll modify Lee handles and give the NOE TL454-292-RF with White Label lube a try and report back.

[Nobade]

If you can find any, a full case of Reloader 7 behind that bullet makes a good rifle load. And it's a lot faster than 700 fps, almost double.

[olddude38special]

Thank you , I'll keep an eye out. I figure the 30" barrel would double the FPS of the Hodgdon pistol data they gave me. If my range still rents a chrono I may do that as well

[Castaway]

You won’t come near doubling your velocity, maybe 200-250 f/s more. Fast powders will give some increase in velocity in a longer barrel but not as much as would slower powders. Still, it’s not that much.

[olddude38special]

Got it I actually prefer the slower speed sub-sonic to just pushing over super-sonic for my tumble lubed castings and for the easy shooting in pistol caliber rifles.
As a DoD contractor I'm way too busy these days to get out to shoot more than once or twice a year - and that is why I have a preference for non-position sensitive powders like Titegroup. And black powder is no longer an option for shooting here...

[PositiveCaster]

What might matter is the twist rate of the rifling. Some .45 LC rifles had a 1:38” twist, my M94 is one of those. 300 grain bullets - both cast and jacketed - shoot “okay” if I keep the velocity above ~1350 fps but not as well as lighter bullets like the short Lee 255 RF do when pushed subsonic. Since the OP wants relatively slow speeds he may have trouble with accuracy in a slow-twist barrel. Or not, not all barrels’ actual twist rates match the spec sheets, and not all bullets are the same.

And who has data supporting the claim that Tightgroup is “not position sensitive”? Perhaps it isn’t in the large .45 LC case - I haven’t tested it - but my chronograph often disproves the claim of a particular powder’s sensitivity to its position in the case. The difference between powder at the back of the case and at the front of the case can exceed 150 fps in some instances. Of course the volume and length of the empty space in the case and the volume of the powder charge are players here too.

[Castaway]

Even with Unique, groups open up if you play with tipping the barrel down on some shots and leveling the charge before shooting. Still minute of deer or pig, but shooting paper will show the groups opening up

[Castaway]

Double post

[mehavey]

for the 1885 High-Wall in particular, how about some feedback on molds and throwing .45 300gn....

The High Wall is a very strong action, and ALOX is a very effective high-speed/pressure lube.
Is the OP staying low speed/pressure for a reason?

See: https://www.marlinowners.com/threads...d-topic.83380/

[olddude38special]

The High Wall is a very strong action, and ALOX is a very effective high-speed/pressure lube.
Is the OP staying low speed/pressure for a reason?

See: https://www.marlinowners.com/threads...d-topic.83380/

I am specifically asking for any 'documented data' for pushing a 300gn cast boolit out of a .45 colt case and for the 1885 high wall action. None of my books have charges for anything past the 255gn cast. Hodgdon sent a 300gn cast boolit load table, but it is for pistol not rifle, much less the 30" barrel of the 1885-it's a safe place to start but not optimal by any means.

[Nobade]

Well I have certainly done a lot of that with my Marlin 1894CB. That 290 grain Ranch Dog bullet mentioned above, either with poofter loads using Trailboss for silhouette or serious stuff with 296, 1680,#9, 4227, or Reloader 7. Also plenty with green dot, red dot, Unique, etc. It works. As for rifle only loads, that only applies to the slower powders. The faster powders won't be any different as far as load data goes than they would in a handgun since you run into pressure issues before they go any faster. I'd just use what they sent you and see what you get, but if you really want to push things you'll be able to break 1500 fps with that bullet in your rifle with the right powder.

[38-72]

I faced the same problem with my new to me 45 colt in a Browning low wall. The rifle has a 1 in 16 twist. I wanted to shoot accurately out to 600 yards. So I went looking for a bullet in the 325 weigh range with high ballistics so it would carry its speed down range. Pistol molds with their blunt nose shape just didn't fit the type of shooting I wanted to do. I talked with a custom mold maker Steve Brooks about a bullet that would work. He came with a Postell type bullet mold that sets the bullet way out of the case so I could fill case with 35 grains of lightly compressed 3f Swiss blackpowder. The nice thing about Swiss is its consistent bullet speed, read that as very low standard deviation for speed. A thats a very good thing when you are shoot long ranges.

So, I clocked the rounds with my chronograph and the ran in the high 1100s near the muzzle with low single digit SDs, great so far. When match day arrived I was ready. The match is a buffalo gong match and the course of fire is 8 shoot at each distance with no sigters. The distances are 300, 400, 500, and 600 yards. The first gong is shot off-hand and the rest were shot off of crossed sticks.. Well I end up winning the match. Just for the fun of it I test my rifle at 700 and 800 yards and still consistently hit. I ran out of rounds at that point. Next month I am going to give the 900 and 1000 yards a try.