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Thread: Gauging interest: .410 lee-style loader

  1. #21
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    See, the important thing, to me, is not so much the punch sets, which, as you say are easy to cobble together, it's the sizing/stabilizing/pre-crimp properties of the cylinder.

    I used mine extensively in slug-load develoment while I still had a .410. Much handier than hauling a Mec to the range.
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  2. #22
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    Recapping for 410 reloading

    What's the best way to recap those hulls you just decapped? The Lee whackit way will work but it didn't take long for the plastic *** de and re-cappers that came with my kit to come apart. I'd say most any metal 3/8" id pipe of tubing will work. I've even used a piece of aluminum arrow with one end reinforced with a wooden dowel. You do need a hole in one end as the primer sticks into the hull, thus the capper can't be a solid piece of rod on that end. In the photo I'm showing what I currently use. The rod is a piece of 3/8" copper tubing capped with a piece of 30-30 shell for the "whackit" end. For a little more finesse this same tube can be used to press the primer home using a MEC and just setting the hull on the flat base on top of the primer and inserting the rod and lowering the handle as if you were using the MEC dies. Easier to do than to explain. I hope you MEC users understand.

    So what's that business I'm showing on the left side? I use a Lee bullet punch to push the primer into the hull with the hull contained in the washer and shoved, from underneath, into the hole in the loading press. The washer stops the hull and the punch inserts the primer nice, neat, slow, gentle and flat. "Whackit" I don't like! Regards, Woody
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 410 loader capper.jpg  
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  3. #23
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    Resizing your 410 hulls

    If you've got multiple 410's or are shooting hulls not from your gun, you'll need to consider resizing. There's two ways to do this, both cheap. My first sizers were 7/16" washers polished out to size the brass portion to approx. .465-.470". The easy way is to order the 410 sizing ring from MEC. I forgot the cost but it's cheap. To use it use your loading press and some pusher like a Lee bullet punch, or just a flat washer on top of a shellholder, to push the hull into the sizer with the sizer trapped underneath the die hole in your loading press. To get the hull out, use the "whackit" method with the sizer resting on a piece of pipe the the hull to fall into. Works for me. Regards, Woody
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by woody1 View Post
    These decappers all work and work well. It ain't rocket science and it doesn't need to be drill rod or highly polished anything. In fact a 16 penny nail with the point knocked off works too which is just what the item to the left in the pic is except it's inserted into a 223 shell with the primer hole reamed out. This helps in centering the punch. The center item is merely a 5/16" bolt turned down for a decapping punch. I used a drill and a bench grinder as I do not have a lathe. It also fits in a shellholder for use with a press. No. 3 is just what it looks like... a 3/8" dowell with a piece of 16 penny nail stuck in it and capped with a piece of 223 shell to protect the end.

    So to use any of 'em just do it the Lee way. Center the empty shell over a hole in a block of wood, a couple of washers, short piece of pipe, whatever and give it a whack. You get the picture. Regards, Woody
    If a person has one I find that a Lyman Universal Decapping die works fine the only thing is I will have to modify a shell holder for a larger hole for the primer to fall through but I did try it with out a shell holder and it worked fine for decapping the 410 hulls.
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  5. #25
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by jh45gun View Post
    If a person has one I find that a Lyman Universal Decapping die works fine the only thing is I will have to modify a shell holder for a larger hole for the primer to fall through but I did try it with out a shell holder and it worked fine for decapping the 410 hulls.
    I seem to recall that I did that too but couldn't come up with a good way to insert the primer without changing tools so I figured the "whackit" was just as fast.

    OK I'll shut up for a while and let this thread progress the way lathesmith intended...to gauge interest in a 410 loader. Regards, Woody
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  6. #26
    Boolit Bub bcp's Avatar
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    Why not thread it so it can be used in a standard reloading press instead of pounding on it with a hammer?

    Bruce

  7. #27
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    bcp, the idea of threading has also occured to me...I'm giving it some serious consideration. A threaded 7/8 14 "die" would allow one to either use it by hand OR in a press.

    Now, darn it Woody, you told us all about priming/depriming, even threw in a few tidbits about sizing. Pardon me for saying so, but that's the easy stuff. Now when it gets GOOD stuff, the more challenging part of actually loading and especially CRIMPING, you're gonna clam up on us? Sheesh, man, keep talking! This is the part we've all been waiting to hear!

    lathesmith

  8. #28
    Boolit Grand Master
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    oh yeah!! Thread it for a press. That would be cool. I'd start looking for a "thread protector" to fit over it when used in the whack it mode. Maybe even a female thread cover.

    I'm resisting the urge to suggest anything that would take this item from the essence of simplicity to a whiz-bang, uber-loader, but a threaded feature would be nice. In the final analysis, I like simple.

  9. #29
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    Loadin' 410's

    Now Mr. lathesmith I figured mebe I'd hijacked this thread enough. I have posted my crimping method here before although I've mebe perfected it a little since. Ya want pictures or what? To load, dump in a dipperfull of 296(H110), Oh by-the-way we're loading 2 1/2" AA's, the old ones. The dipper is a fired WIN 9mm case soldered to a prob'ly 8 penny nail and dips right at 14 grains dipped my way. YMMV and I recommend that load ONLY for me and my guns. You choose the primer, I'm using Win. Now, using either finger finesse or the wad guide I've mentioned before, insert the proper shotcup/wad or card wads you're using. I highly recommend the wad guide. Tamp the wads/shotcup using whatever ya got that works and dump in a half ounce of shot, I'm using #9 or #10 dependin. Top the shot with a overshot card about 40 caliber. I use one that's about the thickness of a standard 3x5" file card. I cut it with a sharpened 40 short'n'weak case in a drill. This top card is just in case yer crimp isn't perfect and after you've shot those cases a bunch of times, it won't be. Mebe not ever! You can also drip wax or bullet lube to seal any hole in crimps. I just use a card and usually when I don't is when I screw up the crimp.

    The crimp! Use a crimp starter and line it up with the previous folds first. This ain't a MEC that'll automatically (usually) align. To crimp you can use the handy Lee chamber and pusher if it's the correct length for your hulls. Mine isn't and even using 3", I don't like the crimp I get with mine. I crimp with .........to be continued...
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  10. #30
    Boolit Master turbo1889's Avatar
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    Well I'm back to put forth a design I came up with last night. With thoughts of how the RMC reloading kit works, how the Lee loader works, along with some nagging thoughts in the background about the unique sizing dies used on some of the Ponsness Warren reloaders where the shell stays inside the sizing die during the entire loading sequence and is only ejected at the end this is what I came up with:









    Such a design consisting of 9 components plus an additional sizer die body for each additional shell length desired would produce a tool which would fully reload a plastic hull with a fold crimp that still had some "crimp memory" left including sizing the brass base. Add a roll crimp head and a hand drill and you can roll crimp as well. Add one of the MEC brass crimp starter head replacement parts mentioned earlier in this thread and you could load fresh never crimped hulls with a fold crimp too. Make the caps out of 7/8" threaded rod stock and the base a shell holder unit and it would work on a metallic reloading press as well. Cut it from steel rod stock choosing a particular steel that is soft enough to easily machine but still slightly harder than the very soft mild steel used on the very rare steel head 410 shells and your good to go. Brass head cases should size and eject just fine without lube and a mild steel head might take a finger wipe of case lube sizing die.
    Last edited by turbo1889; 01-29-2009 at 07:21 PM.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master

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    "Make the caps out of 7/8" threaded rod stock and the base a shell holder unit and it would work on a metallic reloading press as well. "

    Yes! And be able to decap and recap with a modified primer punch on the primer arm. OK? In my experience, we will need a 6 point crimp starter even with fired hulls. Also wad fingers on the loading cap. Regards, Woody
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  12. #32
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    Crimping 410's

    Back again. I crimp with a RCBS 308 WIN seat die, believe it or not! The process is quite simple but hard for me to describe. What you want is for the finished crimp to bear hard against what would be the shell shoulder of the die. This puts the started crimp points into the bullet seating portion of the die in preparation to them being smushed (highly technical term here) down by the seating stem which you've first raised out of the way. The crimp pusher-downer-thingy can be anything you can raise and lower but needs to be about 5/16" diam. as the seating stem is. I first used a .32 wad cutter seating stem because it's longer but the bullet seating stem works too if it's filled with something to make it almost flat. I just wadded up some paper towel and stuffed it in.

    When the hull is raised and the crimp points are pretty much fully within the neck portion, drop the ram a little and lower the seating stem (screw it down), raise the ram and feel the crimp begin, You'll want to then fully lower the hull and check progress until you've got if fully adjusted and are confident of what you're doing. I find that the difference between the seating stem raised fully out of the way and full crimp is about 6 turns. I took a few photos in the barn today and this is how I adjusted my die.

    Remember these are WIN AA's old style 2 1/2". I put a reloaded hull in the shellholder and raised the ram fully. Put the die in the press and screw it down until it bears pretty firmly on the crimped hull. Lock the lock ring at this position. The bullet seat stem is raised completely out of the way at this point. Then I backed off the die approx 1/4 turn. Next I place a loaded, ready to crimp hull in the shellholder and kinda feel it going up into the neck portion of the die and bringing the crimp points together a little more. At this point, start bringing the seat stem down to lower the crimp petals. Lower the ram a little and lower the seat stem, raise the hull, you can feel what's going on. As I said, I find about 6 turns of the seat stem from start to finish. When the crimp looks the way you want it, quit. You can put a little more taper and/or round off the crimp more by raising the seat stem and lowering the die that 1/4 turn we raised it, shove that hull up and round it off.

    Note the position of the seat stem in the attached photo. The position is just about flush with the top of the die when fully crimped. The white stuff you can see in the finished crimps is pieces of the paper towel filler from the seat stem grabbed by the crimp petals.

    Regards, Woody
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 410 loader die precrimp.jpg   410 loader crimped.jpg   410 loader crimps_red.jpg  
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  13. #33
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    Lee Loader 3" .410

    I have a Lee Loader 3" .410 taht I bought brand new. It does work great on paper and also on Remington/Peters plastic . Winchester hulls are too stiff to crimp.


    So why not cork the winchesters? Could a little cutter be made to take wine corks and cut plugs out of them. Make them oversise so they would need to be compressed in a tapers tool (Maybe an old rifle casing?) and inserted over the shot.

    Most bottle recycling centers and resturaunts/bars have hundreds of thousands of corks. I bet if you went in with some fresh hot coffe you could come out with buckets of them.


    So: What kind of Brass riflle shell could be formed into a .410 shell?


    better yet: Lets petition Shotgun Shell makers to bring back Biodegradeable Paper shotgun shells! Thats an idea even Nany Peolosi would like! Can we get Govt Grant money?

  14. #34
    Boolit Master




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    Quote Originally Posted by NEWENGLANDCHARTERS View Post
    I have a Lee Loader 3" .410 taht I bought brand new. It does work great on paper and also on Remington/Peters plastic . Winchester hulls are too stiff to crimp.


    So why not cork the winchesters? Could a little cutter be made to take wine corks and cut plugs out of them. Make them oversise so they would need to be compressed in a tapers tool (Maybe an old rifle casing?) and inserted over the shot.

    Most bottle recycling centers and resturaunts/bars have hundreds of thousands of corks. I bet if you went in with some fresh hot coffe you could come out with buckets of them.


    So: What kind of Brass riflle shell could be formed into a .410 shell?
    .303 and .444 Lots of stuff out there - mostly Brit, but also on "the end times report"

    Thing about Brass is - it's only good for Shot (ID too big for slug) and some extractors won't catch the rims.



    Left to right: Federal, Remington, Magtech .410 brass, Rem .444
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  15. #35
    Boolit Master

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    I'd pretty much go with brass but I've got 400+ plastics and a gun with such a rough chamber I can't extract full length brass. IME 444's work dandy and I also use 44WCF and 44 magnum's for "short" loads. So where does one get paper 410 hulls these days? Regards, Woody

    PS - I'm tellin ya guys the RCBS 308 die crimp works on those WIN AA hulls.
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  16. #36
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    I agree with Woody, before I bought a MEC600, I made a set for 410 using 308 dies. I can't even find them right now, but if I remember right I drilled out the decap/resize die to the same diameter as the mouth of it. It will resize the brass using either a 444 or 45lc shell holder. while the shell was in the die I would slide out the shell holder and replace it with a penny. Put the primer on the penny and using the ram push the primer into the hull. Used a lee dipper for powder, pushed the wad in with a dowel, poured shot in that I had weighed, used the bullet seating die to start folding the crimp over the screw doen the bullet seater to finih the crimp; seams like i had to get some other seater that was flat but i don't remember what it was. Kinda slow but it worked good til i bought the MEC

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEWENGLANDCHARTERS View Post

    So: What kind of Brass riflle shell could be formed into a .410 shell?
    The most common are 303, 444 ,9.3x74R.

    Some three shot repeaters choke on the 444 because of the small diameter rim. The rim is to small to let the cartridge interrupter do its job, so once the cartridge stop releases the magazine empties.

    Most will work with the 444 as two shooters though.

    I have heard some guns wont extract because of the rim diameter as well.

    The Magtec and .303 brass works good for 2 1/2" shells.

    AS long as the Magtec is available, and a person didn't already have a stash of 444 or .303 , The Magtec is the way to go.

    For brass three incher's, some use the 9.3x74, 405 basic, 400 nitro, 350-400 rigby and Rocky MTN cartridge makes three inch brass for the .410 with internal dimensions the same as Plastic three incher's. None are cheap!

    good luck

  18. #38
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    Woody, OI, and others, thanks for sharing your methods and "hints -n- kinks" for handloading shotshells. turbo, that is quite a loader you have designed there, some real ingenuity! A little beyond my intentions and capabilities though, I guess I'm just a simple kind of guy.
    Yes, woody, the more I think about it the more I like your using a 308 die as a finish crimper. I would dare to wager a lot of guys on this site have a 308 die hanging around,and there are other dies that would probably work as well. Nearly all would have at least a single stage press too, and using that to assist loading would be a plus.
    The wad guide had me a little confused, but that is only because it has been so long since I have actually loaded any shotshells. I can see now how using some of those replacement wad guide fingers should make the job of stuffing a plastic wad into a shell somewhat easier.
    So, more info is a good thing...lots of interesting ideas, and things to think about...

    lathesmith

  19. #39
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    FWIW, even though I have some (with my 5 Lee Shotshell Loaders) I've never used a Wad Guide. Never seemed necessary somehow. It'sreally just a very flimsy piece of plastic anyway...
    A Democrat that owns Guns is like a Vegan that owns Cats...
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  20. #40
    Boolit Man Dakoma's Avatar
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    Make mine out of 303 British use pistol primers,cast my own buckshot,shoot mostly #4 shot and they work just fine.Tried to buy one of the Lee loaders when they were $25.00 with no sucess.Lee said they never made a loader for 410 (Lie) think it is a wonderful idea though hope you Getrdone.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check