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“I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them." the duke
So... it's basically a necked down 308. Why do they need such high pressure? Surely standard 7.62 NATO pressures are sufficient to push those little bullets fast enough to do the job.
I'm a big fan of data-driven decisions. You want to make me smile, show me a spreadsheet! Extra points for graphs and best-fit predictive equations.
Follow the money to find answers
Huh? What did you say?
As if there wasn’t enough hearing damage in our vets as it is…
A bunch of long range elk hunters that were shooting elk at over 2000 yds back years ago were using this type of case. They lathe turned bases and threaded the brass body of the case onto the steel bases.
Voere was the company with the caseless ammo and rifle to shoot it. Finn Aagaard reviewed the .224 version and took a deer with it near his place in Llano.
Remington had the Etronix version of the m700 that came in 22-250, .220 Swift, and .243. The primer was the only variant on the conventional brass cartridge.
It was only cataloged for 2-3 years starting in 2000.
I think that the long range requirements for the military are already covered by the 7.62 Nato, .300 Winchester magnum, and .50 BMG- but I'm just a dumb old country boy.
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U.S. Army Selects SIG SAUER Next Generation Squad Weapons System
https://www.sigsauer.com/blog/us-arm...weapons-system
.277 SIG Fury Cartridge: Everything You Need to Know - Guns and Ammo
https://www.gunsandammo.com/editoria...rtridge/457153
Last edited by M-Tecs; 04-22-2022 at 07:58 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Last I read, the round was like $8 each, hopefully this will change with the SAAMI and military adopting it.
Ok, looked and it's down to $3.98 each.
https://www.sigsauer.com/accubond-27...ry-hybrid.html
"Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it."
~Pericles~
Uncle Sam has finally accepted the concept of suppressors for infantry rifles. They're not just for Spec Ops anymore.Originally Posted by Silvercreek Farmer
Warning: I know Judo. If you force me to prove it I'll shoot you.
OUCH! I'd guess that two-piece case adds a lot to the production cost.Last I read, the round was like $8 each, hopefully this will change with the SAAMI and military adopting it.
Ok, looked and it's down to $3.98 each.
https://www.sigsauer.com/accubond-27...ry-hybrid.html
Warning: I know Judo. If you force me to prove it I'll shoot you.
I have heard the "lighter ammunition so troops can carry more of it" story before. Combine carrying a lot more ammo with a rock-n-roll switch and you get what Major Lones Wigger discovered whenstudying the state of marksmanship in Vietnam. Winger wrote that an estimated 300,000+ rounds were fired per casualty inflicted.
I see a similar situation every time I am surrounded by ARs at the range.
One thing that strikes me when I read of these new toys the military wants is the staggering cost to the taxpayers. In recent years there was what ammounted to a gussied-up AR-based rifle the Marines wanted at demeaning like $5500 a pop.
And to think the young men of the "Greatest Generation" only had 8 rounds of boring old caliber .30 M1 in a rifle that kicked harder than a modern weightlifting athlete can stand.
In Semi auto form at that! No full auto on a Garand.
I got in trouble more than once for refusing to fire full auto for no reason in Vietnam. I was brought up on "one shot, one kill". And I lived by that creed. If full auto is needed for cover fire to move troops then that is fine but not just to waste the precious 200 rounds they "said" you were only supposed to carry out in the field. How many of you vets actually carried the 200 round limit?
only the pentagon can afford things like those $8 rounds and $640 toilet seats. hey guys and guess who pays the bill.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...804-story.html
if John browning were born 20 years ago wonder what would be created.
I don’t give a darn if the cases can withstand 80k psi. What about the receiver?
I’ll do som digging, but I bet it could take a while for this to hit the army.
Gotta get NATO’s approval as well.
Seems to be little gain for a caliber stretching that chamber at 80k psi
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Per the reports I have read they will start fielding them next year.
80k receivers are not a problem. Some of the custom action makers have offered them for a couple of years for the extreme long range competitors. Even the standard AR bolts and extensions survived the AMU's V-8 loads. They tested at 77k or 78k.
As to NATO approval not required.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
If we can cast boolits why can't we cast a powder charge onto it?
Durability was a big problem though. I was shown a drawing of a "bullet" jacketed partitioned with multiple chambers for the propellant. A long skirt to it so that the propellant was protected. Just different ways of accomplishing the task. Just wait till railguns improve
I understand that there is a rail gun on a Navy ship right now. Maybe for long range tests but it is operational so far. Rail guns are a now weapon, not a future weapon. It takes a lot of power to operate one so I don't see the Army or Marines using them in the foreseeable future. The Power units needed to operate them are just to big to tote around the battlefield. my .02 anyway, james
NATO approval not required? You sure about that?
https://www.queensu.ca/cidp/sites/ci...B_Zhou_web.pdf
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Yes, very sure.
NATO does not “approve ammunition."
When NATO agrees to a specification for common rounds that will safely function in weapons of that caliber used by other NATO forces it then becomes a Standard NATO Round. Nothing more.
NATO rounds will have defined dimensions and pressures so they will safely function in firearms with NATO chamberings.
Militaries are free to use weapons that do not use NATO standard rounds.
You confused NATO Standard ammunition as NATO Approved. There is no such thing as “NATO Approved” ammunition. NATO Standard ammunition is exactly that: ammunition manufactured to the agreed-upon NATO standard.
As a matter of, well, standardization, NATO armies guarantee their various weapons that have a NATO Standard ammunition be able to accept and use that ammunition. But no NATO military is required to use such if they choose.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 04-24-2022 at 12:55 AM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Because they needed to reach a specific level of terminal performance at a specific range. .277 caliber was the best compromise between ballistic coefficients and getting to the required velocity at a reasonable pressure. 7mm-08 is similar (albeit a .284 bullet vs .277), and a 130 grain bullet in that caliber maxes out around 2900 feet per second, but with a 24 inch barrel. The army needed 3000 out of a 16 inch barrel. That's where the extra pressure comes from.
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