Frankford FX-10 progressive

[Drew P]

https://ultimatereloader.com/2021/09...kford-arsenal/


Anyone see this new machine? Interesting design for sure. All ball bearing.

[Half Dog]

It’s gotta be tough, launching this type of product when components are scarce.

[jmorris]

From a couple years ago.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...al-progressive

I would guess something is wrong with the design and unlike RCBS they don’t want to ship presses that don’t work and instantly gain a bad reputation. Because years later the price has doubled and it’s still “coming soon”.

https://www.frankfordarsenal.com/rel...r/1178469.html

[KAYDADOG]

Thank You

[dverna]

I agree with Morris. There are likely bugs that are still being worked out. The other issue may be supply chain backups.

The price is too good to be true but I would take a shot at it if I was in the market for another top end machine. But I am downsizing so no interest. I expect it will go up in price...see below.

As to the price, last year I bought a great little PCP rifle that was $300 and now the new model is $500. Rifle comes from China. I can see FA offering a very attractive price to get into the market and raising prices once people praise it.

[jmorris]

Here's where the FX-10 will never be capable of matching the Mark-7. I invested another $1/K purchasing all the main sensors that monitor all the stations.

If you can add them to one press, you can add them to others. I have automated presses that do things that none of the mark 7 presses can do with all the accessories they offer. Just a matter of making them, as an engineer you understand this.

They were supposed to MSRP in the $600 range but they didn’t have anything except a drawing before the anticipated price doubled.

They probably have noticed what idiots are paying for primers these days and figured they would go fishing too. You can always lower prices and have people jump on board, harder to do going the other way, unless your product is hands down better than the rest. If that were the case, they probably would have started production by now.

[Bmi48219]

Interesting video. They don’t say where the press and attachments are made. Maybe an oversight but it matters to some. I am always awed by the functions progressives are capable of. This is due to my only foray in that direction being a SDB. Understandably the video blew through the caliber conversion but from the pile of subassemblies shown I’m guessing such a conversion will take more than a few minutes. I don’t have space for multiple caliber specific presses and I’d rather not face a half hour change over, given my limited my opportunities to reload.
All in all an impressive machine, were I twenty years younger it might merit a second look. At my position on the path of life ‘simplicity’ trumps speedy production.

[jmorris]

Interesting video. They don’t say where the press and attachments are made. Maybe an oversight but it matters to some.

If “made in the USA” isn’t touted and proudly on the product. It’s probably not made here.

Kind of like the device you used to read this post.

The other hint is that the price point didn’t start at $2000 and move to $4000.

[GWS]

From a couple years ago.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...al-progressive

I would guess something is wrong with the design and unlike RCBS they don’t want to ship presses that don’t work and instantly gain a bad reputation. Because years later the price has doubled and it’s still “coming soon”.

https://www.frankfordarsenal.com/rel...r/1178469.html

If “made in the USA” isn’t touted and proudly on the product. It’s probably not made here.

Kind of like the device you used to read this post.

The other hint is that the price point didn’t start at $2000 and move to $4000.

From your own experience with automating presses, wouldn't you say that the hardest part is keeping control once the motor starts? Especially when a case isn't just perfect? Or the lube wears thin?

Guess my point is the operator is still the weak link, and unless he is able to think quick and know how to clear something fast all hell can break loose.

Many years ago I used to write computer code I needed for my secretary to use. I could easily make it where "I" could use it, but "Sally-Proofing" was to totally different matter, and took a lot more work. I'm guessing that once this new machine got past the engineers they had a rude awakening.

In my case, with my RCBS Pro Chucker 7......it took more than a little "Greg-proofing" to make it work as great as it does now. Trouble is, the target market, isn't in to "proofing" a new expensive machine, let alone a new super expensive machine......and there's the other thing......it's not blue so it has to be perfect.....especially coming from China.

My 3D printer comes from China.....it can be perfect......at times. It can be a monster at other times. Thank goodness for internet help. Still love it.

[sigep1764]

For what it's worth, I watched the video on the FX-10 press and it was impressive. If all the bugs were addressed and the original price of $1200 was kept this would have been a very good progressive press. It would have been in competition with Dillon and the Mark-7. It would however never do what the Mark-7 is capable of doing. Since I sold my Dillon 1050 and purchased a Mark-7 I know firsthand what the FX-10 is not capable of doing.

The Mark-7 is a very well-built press. All the components are CNC machined not like the newer Apex models now using machined castings. I'm sure machining castings is cheaper than making a fully CNC machined part. All I can say if you can afford one it is a joy to operate. My only issue would be changing from small to large primers. This takes a little bit of time. This may have been changed on the Apex model. Currently setup for 9/mm and 45/ACP. Started with 45/ACP large primer so a primer changeover would always be required. The bell finally went off to use 45/ACP small primer cases, no primer changeovers required. Changing toolheads and conversion parts not very time consuming.

Here's where the FX-10 will never be capable of matching the Mark-7. I invested another $1/K purchasing all the main sensors that monitor all the stations. Figured out all the electrical interfaces another challenge. Luckily my background is in electrical engineering. Built an interface panel which is PLC controlled the easiest way to control all the functions and indicators on the panel. Basically, doing what the automated Mark-7 panels can do. Because I like taking things to the next level, I just wanted to monitor what each station was doing every pull of the handle. With the handle in the up position and all four stations are good to go I have a small green stack lite which will be on. There is no guessing if something is not right, I know everything is correct. If a station is indicating a problem a red indicator will trigger and an audible alarm can also be enabled. The Red stack lite would be flashing at this point indicating a problem. When loading 500-1000 rounds at a time, the sensors do their job, but they come at a cost.
The Mark-7 is one of the best presses I've ever owned. Still have two XL650's and they are still good press for all my other calibers and rifle loads.
I could see a FX-10 replacing a XL650-XL750 if it's as well built and solid as advertised.

Couldn't find a current price for the FX-10. Didn't see any information on caliber changeover costs. I would not jump into buying one if they ever hit the market. If demand is low, they may stop making them several years down the road, remember the RCBS Green Machine. Owned one and finally sold mine twenty years later. It worked but had a lot of issues and this was from a very large manufacturer.

Just some information I wanted to add.

Thank You

I do not see where in this post it is explained what the FX is not capable of. It simply states what the Mark 7 is capable of after adding a $1000 worth of sensors and panels. Have you had your hands on the FX press?

[tja6435]

Looks cool, but I really like my XL650 and being able to leave the dies setup in the tool head. I wonder what that shell plate is going to run—-I’d bet it’ll be $200+

I REALLY like Dillon’s service for parts, just call and it’s OTW.

[jmorris]

From your own experience with automating presses, wouldn't you say that the hardest part is keeping control once the motor starts? Especially when a case isn't just perfect? Or the lube wears thin?

Guess my point is the operator is still the weak link, and unless he is able to think quick and know how to clear something fast all hell can break loose.

On automated equipment I don’t have control, thus the point of automation. The hardest part of them not stopping is to feed them the same thing, correctly, all of the time. Assuming the equipment doesn’t fail to do it’s job (why I automated 1050’s vs loadmasters).

Depends on the extent of automation and what input they are allowed to impart.

There are CNC “operators” that know how to take a finished part out, put a new part in and before hitting the “start” button, check the last part with a couple “go/no go” gauges. Their importance is less than the tooling or person they go get when the last part didn’t pass.

Doing anything “fast” isn’t the important part, rather correctly and well, the goal, for me, is to not have to do the work or stand there all day. Kind of like a dish washer or washing machine. Put the right thing in them, add the things they need to work with, push the buttons, come back when they are done and repeat.

Many years ago I used to write computer code I needed for my secretary to use. I could easily make it where "I" could use it, but "Sally-Proofing" was to totally different matter, and took a lot more work.

“Idiot proofing” is very, very difficult. The problem is, no matter how well one idiot proofs a product, they just make better idiots.

Like modern oil caps with photos of a pump oil can (that few have seen in use for the last 30+ years)…



That’s because someone looked “everywhere” and couldn’t find an OIL cap, just the 710 cap…

[Drew P]

Looks cool, but I really like my XL650 and being able to leave the dies setup in the tool head. I wonder what that shell plate is going to run—-I’d bet it’ll be $200+

I REALLY like Dillon’s service for parts, just call and it’s OTW.

That’s what I thought too. That giant bearing can’t be cheap. Then again the projected price of 700$ means it can’t be too bad.

[LenH]

JMorris, I have to agree with your idiot proofing comment. I am a structural steel detailer(a glorified draftsman) and have been for 40+ years. I made a shop foreman
very angry at me once when he asked me to idiot proof some shop drawings. I told him it was impossible as his idiots know no bounds. The guy in question could not
layout a simple plate. He made the statement that no one could layout that plate the way it was drawn. I grabbed his soap stone and framing square and made the layout
on the plate. Another guy took the plate and did the same layout on the other side. The idiot in question loaded his tools and went to the house.