When Did This Idea of a Rapture Come From?

[HangFireW8]

When did certain Christian sects start to believe and teach rapture doctrine?

Back to the original question.

Modern, western understanding of the Rapture is generally traced back to John Nelson Darby, a Plymouth Brethren preacher who died dirt poor in the service of the gospel.

[Thunder Stick]

Back to the original question.

Modern, western understanding of the Rapture is generally traced back to John Nelson Darby, a Plymouth Brethren preacher who died dirt poor in the service of the gospel.

The term, “Premillenialist” means someone who believes Christ will return just before His millennial (thousand year) reign on earth. In reality, the early church believed in a “Pretribulation” return of Christ for His “Bride” the church, composed of believing Christians. The tribulation is a seven-year period of God’s wrath, foretold by the prophet Daniel that occurs before the millennial reign of Christ. This return is called the rapture. (Greek: harpazo = Latin: rapture) Saint Victorius, Bishop of Petau, wrote of the pretribulation return when he wrote a Revelation commentary about the church being taken out. So did Pseudo Ephraem in AD 372.

These were not mere theories of men but actual teachings from the Bible itself. In John 14:1-3 Jesus says he will return for His own. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 says that Christ will come for His people then, in 1 Thessalonians 5:3, comes the destruction and verse 9 calls it God’s wrath. This is verified by 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 and James 5:7-9, all of which speak of the pretribulation return of Christ. Its purpose is to keep believers safe from the approaching global crisis.

Since it is found in the Bible verses I’ve listed. Darby did not come up with anything “new” and many mistakenly credit him with the idea of the pretribulation “catching away” of believers. Reverend Morgan Edwards’ “The Millennium” (1788) predated Darby by seventy years. Joseph Mede also wrote about the Rapture. (1586-1638)

In reality, the various beliefs in mid-tribulation, pre-wrath and other raptures are the “new” ideas, not the longstanding belief in the imminent, pretribulation rapture of the Christian church. Pre-tribulation simply means that the Rapture of the church must precede the seven years of tribulation.

The rapture of the church will be swift and without warning. This is why every Christian should live as though this is the day that Christ will return.

[skeet1]

In my mind, the problem of the rapture is this idea of believers mysteriously disappearing and going to be with God. When Jesus returns scripture says every eye will see him so where is the mystery?

[Good Cheer]

Nonsense? How so? Once again you only say I'm wrong; that's not much. Once again you protest against Rev 7:4-8 but you still haven't told us who you think those carefully selected and sealed Jews are so the original questions you raised remain unanswered.

You've repeatedly said scripture "clearly" says those 144,000 Jewish witnesses aren't "Jewish". That's not what WE read so we must continue to wonder why you refuse to simply tell us where/how we mere Bible study plebs can look to confirm your own excellent position. ???

This is funny. They are from twelve Israelite tribes.
How can someone not comprehend that the Israelite tribes are not all Jewish?
Whoever filled your head with that nonsense, you'd better find out what else they fooled you with.

[Good Cheer]

In my mind, the problem of the rapture is this idea of believers mysteriously disappearing and going to be with God. When Jesus returns scripture says every eye will see him so where is the mystery?

It would be wonderful to see His sign in the heavens.
Don't know that I want to stay here that long but it's not my call.

[Thunder Stick]

In my mind, the problem of the rapture is this idea of believers mysteriously disappearing and going to be with God. When Jesus returns scripture says every eye will see him so where is the mystery?

The mystery is that no one knows when Christ will call his bride home to be with him. We see in Jesus’ parable of the wise and foolish virgins that they didn’t t know when He would come for them.

The return of Christ to rule the earth for a thousand years is a later event, happening at the end of 7 years of tribulation. That is when the world will see Him coming.

Blessings.

[1hole]

..... In reality, the various beliefs in mid-tribulation, pre-wrath and other raptures are the “new” ideas, not the longstanding belief in the imminent, pretribulation rapture of the Christian church. Pre-tribulation simply means that the Rapture of the church must precede the seven years of tribulation.

Well and truly said Thunder (plus some others above).

The early Roman Church ignored a lot of things, including salvation by faith alone in Jesus alone and any mention of the prophesied end times events; they could do that and get away with it when few people could read or even have access to Biblical scrolls. But, given that what we now know and call the pre-tribulation Rapture was explained by Paul in his letters to the churches at Corinth and Thessalonica it can't reasonably be called a "new" thing!

Some "modern" folk say Darby (plus Clarence Larkin, Schofield, David Jerimiah, Charles Ryrie, plus a very long list of other Bible scholars) first and foolishly promulgated a "new" concept of a Rapture for their personal gain but if that were true they all would have been vastly in error.

[1hole]

This is funny. They are from twelve Israelite tribes.
How can someone not comprehend that the Israelite tribes are not all Jewish?
Whoever filled your head with that nonsense, you'd better find out what else they fooled you with.

Well, it wasn't you because you still don't even try to tell us who you think they really are. ???

[Alex_4x4]

What's the problem?

In the state of Israel, for example, Jews of different nationalities live.

Jew is not a nationality.

Jew is a state of mind.

[Good Cheer]

What's the problem?

In the state of Israel, for example, Jews of different nationalities live.

Jew is not a nationality.

Jew is a state of mind.

Spot on Alex.

[Alex_4x4]

Spot on Alex.

I don't understand the meaning of this sentence. What does this text mean?

[Good Cheer]

Good morning Alex.
"Spot on" means accurately hitting the target, a term indicating agreement.

[ioon44]

The term, “Premillenialist” means someone who believes Christ will return just before His millennial (thousand year) reign on earth. In reality, the early church believed in a “Pretribulation” return of Christ for His “Bride” the church, composed of believing Christians. The tribulation is a seven-year period of God’s wrath, foretold by the prophet Daniel that occurs before the millennial reign of Christ. This return is called the rapture. (Greek: harpazo = Latin: rapture) Saint Victorius, Bishop of Petau, wrote of the pretribulation return when he wrote a Revelation commentary about the church being taken out. So did Pseudo Ephraem in AD 372.

These were not mere theories of men but actual teachings from the Bible itself. In John 14:1-3 Jesus says he will return for His own. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 says that Christ will come for His people then, in 1 Thessalonians 5:3, comes the destruction and verse 9 calls it God’s wrath. This is verified by 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 and James 5:7-9, all of which speak of the pretribulation return of Christ. Its purpose is to keep believers safe from the approaching global crisis.

Since it is found in the Bible verses I’ve listed. Darby did not come up with anything “new” and many mistakenly credit him with the idea of the pretribulation “catching away” of believers. Reverend Morgan Edwards’ “The Millennium” (1788) predated Darby by seventy years. Joseph Mede also wrote about the Rapture. (1586-1638)

In reality, the various beliefs in mid-tribulation, pre-wrath and other raptures are the “new” ideas, not the longstanding belief in the imminent, pretribulation rapture of the Christian church. Pre-tribulation simply means that the Rapture of the church must precede the seven years of tribulation.

The rapture of the church will be swift and without warning. This is why every Christian should live as though this is the day that Christ will return.

Good post, thanks for taking the time to research the info.

[Alex_4x4]

Good morning Alex.
"Spot on" means accurately hitting the target, a term indicating agreement.

Now I understand. Thanks for the clarification, otherwise Google translator failed to convey the meaning.

[Alabama358]

Sorry, I wrote imperfectly.

I meant you need to "get over" limiting yourself to Matt 24 to truly understand the end times because there is much more scripture dealing with that topic. A true understanding has to include extensive end times passages from Revelation, Danial, Thess, Psalms, Ezekiel, and shorter bits from several other books. Only with a broad end times knowledge can we actually get a proper understanding of the original message. Of course you give no specific scripture probably because you are regurgitating someones else's rhetoric that didn't supply you with actual scripture or you do actually know and understand the scriptures but they run contrary to your doctrine so you chose to paraphrase and opinionate scripture to make it fit, so I will help you out
Daniel 8
Matthew 24
Mark 13
Joel 2
Acts 2
Luke 21
2 Thessalonians 2
Revelation 6
Revelation 7

Understanding end times scripture is sort of like surveying land. You need to have a solid stake in the ground to sight in on with a theodolite, "the instrument that can measure both horizontal and vertical angels, which allows surveyors to Triangulate the position of objects in a specific area."

My stake in the ground is The Abomination of Desolation which is solidly known to be at the Mid-point of the 7 year period and the Sun and Moon darkened and stars falling from the sky.

Key points from Above scriptures:
1 - The Abomination of Desolation takes place at the half way point of the 7 year period (I don't think anyone argues this)
2 - The Abomination of Desolation and the Sun and Moon being darkened and stars falling from the sky etc have to happen FIRST before the return of the LORD to collect his saints
3 - After the 6th seal is broken (half way point of the Tribulation) the appearance of the Church/Saints/Saved in Heaven having coming out of Great Tribulation at the ceremony of the sealing of the 144,000 "of all the tribes of the children of Israel." (see Below)

Revelation 7: 9 and 14
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb..

Another point of fact is that Revelation 6:17 confirms that the Wrath of GOD starts after the sixth seal is broken (1/2 way point) as it says the wrath "IS" come meaning that it has just happened,

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? [/B]

For instance, Revelation expands to tell us the end times preaching of the gospel to all the world is meant for the 144,000 who are chosen and marked to be Jesus' world wide witnesses are taken from the 12 tribes of Israel during the 7 Years of Tribulation so they cannot be the world wide gentile church before the Tribulation. (That does NOT mean the church has no responsibility to reach as many lost people as we can today but it does mean that the end times work of the marked 144,000 Jews is not written to us.)
[B]Again your ignorance or distortion of scripture (or both) proceeds you...
The 144,000 are not sealed and sent to earth to preach until after the 6th seal is broken. The MID point of the 7 year (Pre-Wrath Post-Tribulation) you know... after the Abomination of Desolation, after the Sun and Moon are Darkened and after the Lord comes in the clouds to collect his saints...you know, where the countless group of saints that just came out of great Tribulation shows up in heaven with white robes washed in the blood of the Lamb.

Also, you say... but, it does mean that the end times work of the marked 144,000 Jews is not written to us
That is a particularly odd position to take that the 144,000 will only be here to witness to the Jews and not to the unsaved gentiles?? Or maybe I misunderstood your poorly written point that has no particular scriptures to draw from?

1hole
You should really look up the above referenced scriptures and study and compare them. If you do that with an open mind, it may be an eye opening experience for you!

Also...
This Silly nonsense that you keep returning to with Good Cheer saying the 144,000 are Jews, it is hard to follow your logic. Unless you are leaning on...

Romans 2:29
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

That would make all saved folks Jews as well,
So, if that is your position...then that destroys your argument that there is 1 program for the "Jews" and 1 program for the Gentile Saved.

[Good Cheer]

The term, “Premillenialist” means someone who believes Christ will return just before His millennial (thousand year) reign on earth. In reality, the early church believed in a “Pretribulation” return of Christ for His “Bride” the church, composed of believing Christians. The tribulation is a seven-year period of God’s wrath, foretold by the prophet Daniel that occurs before the millennial reign of Christ. This return is called the rapture. (Greek: harpazo = Latin: rapture) Saint Victorius, Bishop of Petau, wrote of the pretribulation return when he wrote a Revelation commentary about the church being taken out. So did Pseudo Ephraem in AD 372.

These were not mere theories of men but actual teachings from the Bible itself. In John 14:1-3 Jesus says he will return for His own. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 says that Christ will come for His people then, in 1 Thessalonians 5:3, comes the destruction and verse 9 calls it God’s wrath. This is verified by 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 and James 5:7-9, all of which speak of the pretribulation return of Christ. Its purpose is to keep believers safe from the approaching global crisis.

Since it is found in the Bible verses I’ve listed. Darby did not come up with anything “new” and many mistakenly credit him with the idea of the pretribulation “catching away” of believers. Reverend Morgan Edwards’ “The Millennium” (1788) predated Darby by seventy years. Joseph Mede also wrote about the Rapture. (1586-1638)

In reality, the various beliefs in mid-tribulation, pre-wrath and other raptures are the “new” ideas, not the longstanding belief in the imminent, pretribulation rapture of the Christian church. Pre-tribulation simply means that the Rapture of the church must precede the seven years of tribulation.

The rapture of the church will be swift and without warning. This is why every Christian should live as though this is the day that Christ will return.

Thank you for the references to Saint Victorius' commentary and to Pseudo Ephraem. Downloaded copies for study.

[Alabama358]

The term, “Premillenialist” means someone who believes Christ will return just before His millennial (thousand year) reign on earth. In reality, the early church believed in a “Pretribulation” return of Christ for His “Bride” the church, composed of believing Christians. The tribulation is a seven-year period of God’s wrath, foretold by the prophet Daniel that occurs before the millennial reign of Christ. This return is called the rapture. (Greek: harpazo = Latin: rapture) Saint Victorius, Bishop of Petau, wrote of the pretribulation return when he wrote a Revelation commentary about the church being taken out. So did Pseudo Ephraem in AD 372.

These were not mere theories of men but actual teachings from the Bible itself. In John 14:1-3 Jesus says he will return for His own. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 says that Christ will come for His people then, in 1 Thessalonians 5:3, comes the destruction and verse 9 calls it God’s wrath. This is verified by 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 and James 5:7-9, all of which speak of the pretribulation return of Christ. Its purpose is to keep believers safe from the approaching global crisis.

John chapter 14:1-3 (nothing at all here regarding secret pre-trib rapture)
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

1 Thessalonians chapter 4:16-17(nothing at all here regarding secret pre-trib rapture, on the contrary "a shout","voice of archangel", "trump of God" sounds more like Matthew 24:31 which happens after the abomination of desolation Middle of the 7 year period and not a secret pre-trib)
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians chapter 5:3&9 (nothing at all here regarding secret pre-trib rapture, point of fact, the entire 7 year period is NOT the wrath of God, in fact the wrath of God does not start until the 6th seal is broken See Revelation 6:17, Also in Christ's own words Matthew 24:8 the first part of the 7 year period is only the beginning of sorrows and then Matthew 24:21 towards the Middle, events will move from sorrows to Great Tribulation but NOT Gods Wrath)
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

1 Thessalonians chapter 1:10 (nothing at all here regarding secret pre-trib rapture, see above regarding wrath)
10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

2 Thessalonians (nothing at all here regarding secret pre-trib rapture)

1 Corinthians chapter 15:51-58 (nothing at all here regarding secret pre-trib rapture, this scripture is definitely talking about the rapture and salvation but zero reference or inference to a before the 7 year period spoken of Daniel the prophet)
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

James chapter 5:7-9 (nothing at all here regarding secret pre-trib rapture)
7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

Since it is found in the Bible verses I’ve listed. (But it is not found in any of the verses you listed, not one! This kind of reminds me of gaslighting technique, if you say something enough times, no matter how absurd... there are some folks that will believe it) Darby did not come up with anything “new” and many mistakenly credit him with the idea of the pretribulation “catching away” of believers. Reverend Morgan Edwards’ “The Millennium” (1788) predated Darby by seventy years. Joseph Mede also wrote about the Rapture. (1586-1638)

In reality, the various beliefs in mid-tribulation, pre-wrath and other raptures are the “new” ideas, not the longstanding belief in the imminent, pretribulation rapture of the Christian church. Pre-tribulation simply means that the Rapture of the church must precede the seven years of tribulation.

The rapture of the church will be swift and without warning. This is why every Christian should live as though this is the day that Christ will return. (1 Thessalonians chapter 5:3-4 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
I wonder what Paul was Talking about here)

I have went through and listed all of the scripture that you quote in your post as validating the pre-trib rapture of the church and none, no not one say anything at all specific to a pre-tribulation rapture time frame. They are referencing Salvation and the Rapture but zero reference to Pre 7 year period

If possible, could you to go through each one and explain their relevance to a pre- 7 year period rapture of the elect?

As I have posted before we know when the Abomination of Desolation and the Sun and Moon being darkened take place (on or about the midpoint) and that is how I chronologically interpret end time scripture regarding the rapture.

What specific event or scripture do you use to chronologically layout a Pre-Trib doctrine?

[Good Cheer]

Time line check point: Once the man of sin is revealed everyone sees the sign of the coming.

[1hole]

The mystery is that no one knows when Christ will call his bride home to be with him. We see in Jesus’ parable of the wise and foolish virgins that they didn’t t know when He would come for them.

Roger that. It takes a little knowledge of how Jewish weddings of that day were done to understand that the expectant bride had to stay at home and ready for her coming groom at all times because she wouldn't know the time of his coming.

It was no surprise that the groom WAS coming and when he did he would then take her back to his father's house to consummate the marriage.




He said, "In my Father's house are many mansions" ... and "You will be eternally be with me for eternity". That makes no sense IF the Lord's coming is only to be WITH his bride for another 3 1/2 years of hellish wrath rather than coming FOR his bride. No, the Church is NOT going to suffer hell on earth during God's tribulation/wrath!

Jesus doesn't do nonsensical things so coming in the sky for his bride is NOT the "second coming". We'll safely stay with him in the present heaven until we - his church - returns to earth with him AFTER the seven years of tribulation.

The return of Christ to rule the earth for a thousand years is a later event, happening at the end of 7 years of tribulation. That is when the world will see Him coming.

Right again.

Some folk, in their anti-semitic efforts to replace the Jews in God's heart and substitute the massively gentile church, trip over their own feet by trying to force an identical union of Jews and the church in order to eliminate the eternal promises God made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; that's a mistake.

We also need to know that the Bride - the Church - is all believers from Pentecost to the Rapture.

In this historical time frame - this dispensation - we have been made spiritual Jews, with all the benefits therein, but we still are not "the apple of God's eye" Jews with a long list of unique promises from God. We gentiles are adopted/grafted in and are fully loved but we won't be dealt with exactly the same as the bloodline Jews in eternity.


Bottom line and general progression of next events:

1. The next big spiritual event is the Rapture - the snatching away - of the church. Jesus, the Bridegroom, will call for us - his bride - to "come up" to meet him in the sky. We'll immediately go back with him to the present heaven, i.e., his father's house. And that will all done without Jesus touching earth (or splitting the Mt. of Olives under his feet, from east to west).

2. Some seven (plus) years later, we will return to earth with him, all of us wearing white robes and riding white horses. Jesus will stop Satan's fighting and killing on earth and establish his millennial (earthly) Kingdom.

3. At the beginning of the millennial kingdom the "wheat from chafe", "sheep from goats", "good fish vs. bad fish" separeratons will occur. The born again survivors will populate the millennial.

4. During the millennial, God's ancient promises to Abram and the Jews will come to pass and they will live in the promised land - all of it. In gratitude for the overwhelming gift of Jesus, we gentiles will joyfully take turns helping to care for Jewish herds and fields.

5. At the end of the millennium, Satan will (briefly) be released from the pit. Once again he will find and gather rebellious followers for one last war against God. God will destroy those final rebellious forces by edict.

6. After the millennial, the judgements.
Jesus will first hold his Bema court to award the saints for their good works done in the flesh. Then the Great White Throne court for sentencing the already condemned lost to their earned and proper eternity will meet.

7. Finally, earth itself will be cleansed by fire from any taint of sin and then remade as new and clean as it was after the Flood. We will forever remain on this remade heavenly world with our Lord.

I believe all of that earthly cleaning and renewal work will be going on during the final G.W.Throne court hearings, but that's only my opinion based on the needed sequential timing, I have no scriptural foundation.

[Thunder Stick]

I have went through and listed all of the scripture that you quote in your post as validating the pre-trib rapture of the church and none, no not one say anything at all specific to a pre-tribulation rapture time frame. They are referencing Salvation and the Rapture but zero reference to Pre 7 year period

If possible, could you to go through each one and explain their relevance to a pre- 7 year period rapture of the elect?

As I have posted before we know when the Abomination of Desolation and the Sun and Moon being darkened take place (on or about the midpoint) and that is how I chronologically interpret end time scripture regarding the rapture.

What specific event or scripture do you use to chronologically layout a Pre-Trib doctrine?

Addressing the bold part, The book of Revelation has a description of the rapture of the church prior to the tribulation. Chapters 1-3 are Christ describing the church age. Chapter 4 begins with "After this..." After what? After the church age. From this point on, the church is not mentioned again and the tribulation starts. (Well, the church is mentioned at the end of Revelation in the epilogue but the church is not on the earth during any of the tribulation period.) Chapter 4 continues, "... I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here..." That is how it will be for the church, us believers, when Christ takes us home. It is after the church age and before the tribulation.

A fellow minister and dear friend of mine disagree on this very subject. I believe in the pre trib rapture and he believes in a post trib rapture. I love the man. We are close friends. I like to tell him that the church is the bride of Christ and the tribulation is a time of His wrath upon the sinful world. So, Christ is not a wife beater. We both laugh.

Here is a link to a study on the Pre Tribulation rapture, with Bible references and graphics. I pray it is helpful in your study of the subject. Why a Pre-Tribulation Rapture?

Blessings to all.