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Thread: 158 grain LRN 9MM Loads

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold RVM45's Avatar
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    Cool 158 grain LRN 9MM Loads

    I've just ordered a pair of S&W 5906s. Never owned or loaded for 9mm before.

    I plan to go with the 147 grain JHPs for serious use; but I'd like to load up some loads using .38 Special 158 grain LRNs for practice loads.

    I remember "Combat Handuns" had an article about loading 9mms with the 158 grain LRNs. (I think for subsonic loads; way back before they had factory subsonics.)

    That's been 25 or 30 years ago. That particular magazine has long since gone down the river of time...

    Does anybody have any load data?

    Thanks.

    .....RVM45

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I think your main problem is likely to be that the 9mm brass thickens
    fairly rapidly and you will likely have the rear portion of the boolit into
    the 'non-neck' portion of the case, either bulging the case or sizing
    the base of the boolit down to a diameter less than the normal size.

    Of course, you have very little remaining combustion chamber volume and
    this dramatically increases pressures - so I'd sure start VERY low and
    work up slowly. Reduce data for lead 147s if you can find it by at least
    15% and creep back. You may not have room for very much powder and
    still fit in the mag.

    Bill
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  3. #3
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    John Taffin had an article in which he mentioned using the RCBS 150 K in his 9's. I think for the 9's you are best off with 115 or 125 for any social situation from 'coons to coyotes. The FBI load didn't last for a reaason.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    Since you're not getting the info you requested, I will offer one load that I have used. As you already know, you are in no man's land with that weight bullet.

    The bullet I used was the Lyman 358477, which is a 150 SWC fairly comparable to the RCBS 150-SWC. Given the square nose profile, you can easily get another 8 grians of bullet weight without causing problems.

    I got to the load I used by running QuickLoad and looking for something that was low enough pressure, so that even if QL underpredicted the pressure by as much as 20%, I would still be in safe territory.

    The seating depth for the 358477 is 0.384" and the OAL was 1.040", so there was still of lot of length available. This is important when switching to a 158 RN because it will likely require a much longer OAL. The max allowable OAL for the 9mm Luger is 1.169".

    I used Power Pistol since I wanted one of the slower powders suitable for 9mm. I based the powder choice on the Lyman Pistol & Revolver 3rd Ed. list of powders for the 147 grain bullet. I based my starting and max loads on the pressure levels that Lyman used in the above manual.

    The starting load was 3.0 grains of PP and the predicted pressure was 22.4 KSI. The max load was 3.3 grains of PP with a pressure of 29.4 KSI. As you can see you don't have much room within which to work when you use a bullet that heavy. However, that 29.4 KSI is still well below the SAAMI allowable +P pressure of 38.5 KSI. As I said earlier, I wanted to give myrself enough room in the pressures just in case QL missed the pressure predictions.

    I used the 3.0 load and they worked just fine in my gun with one exception. Some 9mm barrels have very short leades and don't like bullets with parallel sides sticking out of the case very far. With the RN you mentioned, that may or may not be a problem depending on bullet design. I had one barrel that would not chamber these rounds with the SWC bullet. Also, the diameter of your chamber may not be sufficient to handle the diameter of the loaded rounds. vYou may have to spec the sized diameter as 0.356 instead of the more common 0.357 or 0.358 inches.

    What you need to do is pick the bullet you want to work with and get the dimensions off it. You will need the OD, the overall length of the bullet and the seating depth you will use. Make up some dummy rounds to see if your gun will feed and chamber the loaded rounds and get the OAL for the assembled cartridge. With that info, it is possible to run QL to come up with a couple of powders that might work for you.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy AzShooter's Avatar
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    I shot about 60K of 158 grain lead bullets through my Glock when I was shooting Major 9 many ears ago.

    I also found the 158s felt much lighter at minor velocity and shot them for years. Hopefully you have a chronograph.

    Power Pistol worked ok but produced more pressure than I wanted. AA 9 worked good for Major power loads. Bullseye was fantastic for light loads. I don't remember the charge but start low and work up. 3 grains should be a pleasant load for the 158s.
    Go ahead and run. You will only die tired

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    My old Hodgdon Data Manual #23 lists 4.8 gr HS6 and 3.3 gr HP38 for 160gr lead bullet in 9mm.
    My Lee 356-153-2R and Lyman 356637 both drop a ww boolit at 156 gr which I seat out to col 1.166" for the Lee and 1.13" for the Lyman.
    Just because change doesn't make a difference doesn't mean that change is bad.

  7. #7
    Boolit Mold RVM45's Avatar
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    Cool

    Thanks guys. That will get me started.

    .....RVM45

  8. #8
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    In this months American Rifleman Fiocchi is advertising 158 gr FMJ 9MM ammo at 940 fps.

    The Lyman # 45 Manual listed load data for the 358311 158 gr cast for the 9MM. Max loads for Bullseye were 3.5 @961, unique 4.5@1039fps and Herco 4.6 grs @1010 fps. Not recommending, just for your info.

    I have loaded the H&G #39 (a 158gr rn) in my 9MM Hipower over the following loads.
    2.5 gs of Bullseye= 814 fps
    2.8 grs BE =892 fps
    3.3 Hogdon Longshot =823 fps
    4.0 " " " " =926 fps

    The Longshot loads were very accurate and none of the loads I used showed any indications of high pressures in MY GUN! YMMV. BTW I've found Hogdon Longshot to be one of the most accurate powders for cast in the 9mm from 121's thru 147's and the 158.
    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
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  9. #9
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    I've loaded a few thousand 158gr LRNs in 9mm for a suppressed Uzi. Load was 3.3grs of Red Dot. Worked perfect and gave 100% reliable function with the heavy blow-back operation bolt, too.
    Group Buy Honcho for: 9x135 Slippery, 45x200 Target (H&G68), 45x230 Gov't Profile, 44x265 Keith


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  10. #10
    Boolit Mold
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    Question 158 Gr FMJ

    Quote Originally Posted by MakeMineA10mm View Post
    I've loaded a few thousand 158gr LRNs in 9mm for a suppressed Uzi. Load was 3.3grs of Red Dot. Worked perfect and gave 100% reliable function with the heavy blow-back operation bolt, too.
    I "acquired" a hundred 158 grain, .354 dia FMJ projectiles a while back. Anyone got load data for these in 9x19. Think the 3.3gr of Red Dot would work?
    Thank you for your time.
    Aim small, miss small.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    The Lyman 44th edition handbook is available for download in a few places online. It has data for a 158 grain boolit in 9mm using red dot.
    The listing is 3.0 -3.6 grains of Red Dot. No data on OAL.
    Not certain if the powder has changed over the years since that manual was published.
    Your 3.3 grain load is right in the middle of the range that is listed.
    I have no personal experience with that powder/boolit combination.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    I am using Alliant Sport Pistol for 160 gr 9mm, the Alliant loading manual list the charge at 3.1 gr of Sport Pistol, I found I could less and still make power factor.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    I've experimented with many cast bullets in the 9mm for more than thirty years. The best I've found to date has been the obsolete Lyman round nose .38 Special design #358212. Weighs about 150 grains in ww alloy and I size to .358". Most accurate cast bullet I've found and functions reliably in a Beretta, Sig, and a Walther. I use Bullseye, but HS-6 works fairly well, just not as accurate as Bullseye.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master scattershot's Avatar
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    Maybe I missed it, but what is the OAL for a 158RN in the 9mm?
    "Experience is a series of non-fatal mistakes"


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  15. #15
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    I plan to go with the 147 grain JHPs for serious use;

    Years ago, back in the early '70s, I had a Browning HP, 2 M39s and a M59. I also had an Oehler chronograph back then. With cast I tried 158 RNs, 158 SWCs and 150 SWCs found basically I got 38 SPL performance out of the 4" barrel no better than +P loads out of my 4" M15 38 SPL revolver. Frankly, 38 SPL equivalent loads was not what I was looking for then and even after the Miami/Dade County shoot out.

    I went back to 115 JHPs (XTPs or Gold Dots) at 1300+ fps (Browning HP and my current CZ75) loaded over Herco "for personal use". I use the 120 Lee TC cast bullet for practice loaded over 4 gr Bullseye. Both loads are also much easier on the alloy frames.
    Larry Gibson

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  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by scattershot View Post
    Maybe I missed it, but what is the OAL for a 158RN in the 9mm?
    Depends on the 158rn and the gun/mag it's going in.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master scattershot's Avatar
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    I understand that. Just looking for a number.
    Last edited by scattershot; 03-31-2020 at 06:45 PM.
    "Experience is a series of non-fatal mistakes"


    Disarming is a mistake free people only get to make once...

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    I like 2.9 gr Titegroup and have used up to 4.4 gr Power Pistol with the Lee 158-rf at 1.07".

    https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor...mm-luger/99514

  19. #19
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    I "acquired" a hundred 158 grain, .354 dia FMJ projectiles a while back. Anyone got load data for these in 9x19. Think the 3.3gr of Red Dot would work?
    Lyman 45 lists for the 358311 RN
    Bullseye 3.0 to 3.5 gr @ 869-961 fps
    Unique 3.5 to 4.5 @ 883-1093fps
    Herco 3.6 to4.6 @ 840-1010

    Max oal 1.169"

    Have not tried any of these YET!
    Steve,

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  20. #20
    Boolit Master

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    If somebody has a copy of Sixguns by Keith handy, he talks about this is vague terms, relating how some of his chronies had loaded the hollowpoint version of his SWC in 9mm.

    One infers that this is the 358429, which, hollowpointed, works out to about 160 grains. Load specs were mentioned.
    WWJMBD?

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check