Lyman M die or Lee universal expander

[Three44s]

Another plus for the Lyman "M" die!

IF it's boolits ....... rifle or handgun ...... give me the M die!

Three 44s

[Hipshot]

dbidblu,
Apparently you are using the LEE die wrong! The Lee die if used properly would only flare the front 1/16" of the case at the most. The LEE die CANNOT expand the case neck only flare it and the flare is taken out when the case is crimped.

Hip

[dbldblu]

Hipshot

I guess I was not clear. I want to expand the entire neck to be .001 less than my boolit diameter. I realize that the Lee die will not do that; which is why I have never bought one. If the case neck is smaller (.003, .004 or even .005 with some die sets) then you will size your boolits with the case neck as others have said. You are also more apt to get crooked (excessive runout) ammo. Even the Lyman M dies tend to be undersize but they are easy to fix with a new size button. YMMV

[1hole]

I prefer to use the M expander for ALL of my reloading. It does a better job of expanding the necks without bending them than any standard expander button. And use of the first flaring step also allows easy entry for jacketed rifle or pistol bullets as well as cast. There's NO accuracy destroying damage to the delicate bullet heels that way.

[Hipshot]

dbidblu,
Now I hear what you are saying----you are using some of the methods used in the POPE and SCHUTZEN type cast bullets loads where cases weren't sized and a bullet could be seated by hand.
This will work but I would NOT use loads like that in a repeating rifle (single shot maybe) for HUNTING! It would be too easy to push a bullet to far back into the case or end up with a bullet stuck in the bore and a bunch of powder in the action.
Probably the easiest way to do what you want is to get an expander button from the next larger caliber up and take it down with emery paper until it is the size you want. Normally the expander butten should be a few thousands smaller than the bullet so that you maintain neck tension on the bullet to hold it in place. An examole MIGHT be a button from .303 Britich dies used on .30-30 brass, you would have to measure the button first.

Hip

[BeeMan]

Someone who has access to a lathe may want to search the Beartooth Bullet site for M type dies. Marshall Stanton(?) wrote an article about how to make a M die style stem that steps in small increments. I made one for 30 caliber. It doesn't get much faster or more precise than sizing with the Lee collet and expanding with the custom M die in two steps on a turret press.

BeeMan

[jh45gun]

I use the Lee die and I have had no issues with it. Works for me.

[Chunkin' Lead]

i am having the same leading issues with several 9mms and i am now considering getting away from the powder through and adding that extra step until i get my 650xl. thank you guys for the info helps us newbies figure out whats happening post trigger squeeze

[Dannix]

i am having the same leading issues with several 9mms and i am now considering getting away from the powder through and adding that extra step until i get my 650xl. thank you guys for the info helps us newbies figure out whats happening post trigger squeeze

For my 650, setup for 9mm, I use the a custom M plug to expand and then powder through to flare.
1. lee sizer
2. m-die with custom plug
3. powder through/flare
4. lee seater with custom stem
5. lee fcd with custom stem and swager area opened up for boolit loads.

I would be interested in other party's solutions.

[Safeshot]

I like the "RCBS" "Cowboy Action" expander plug for loading cast lead boolits in revolver cartridges (also works well for "like caliber" for "Pistol Cartridges"). This expander plug has a larger diameter - TWO Diameter expander plug with a tapered section for belling the case mouth. I like it for .38 Special and .357 Mag., .44 Special and .44 Mag., .45 Colt and .38 S&W. Depending on the brass and the specific chamber that the cartridge is to be fired in, I sometimes resize the fired case with the Lee (Pistol/Revolver caliber) "FCD" with the crimp "ring" removed instead of the normal Carbide resizing die. Just my approach and opinion. Safeshot

[Old Caster]

If you have a Dillon, have someone make you an expander that also is powder through. It will be worth what you pay for it and as mentioned above, get it about .001 smaller than the bullet is sized to and that will give you the correct neck tension and not swage your bullet down ruining accuracy. Make sure it goes as deep as the bullet seats.

[pt4u2nv]

What is the difference between the 38P and 38AP M die ?

[pt4u2nv]

Forget my question. Found out on lymans site the 38P is for 38, 357, 357 Maximum and 38AP is for 380, 9mm and 380 Super ( auto pistols it appears )

[joec]

I use the RCBS when using cowboy dies in 45 Colt and 45-70. For 454 Casull I use the Lyman M die though I do use the Lee Expander/powder through die for the actually loading just backing it off so it doesn't do the mouth of the case. I use Lee 4 die sets for 9mm and 45 acp only which work well for me with either jacked or lead cast bullets. The 45 colt and 45-70 are only loaded with Lead cast.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Ok, how about we go a bit of a different direction from Lyman "M" and the Lee tools.

I simply don't like the looks of the Lee,(OK, I'm not a Lee fan) as I want more then just the case mouth flaired.

I have looked at Lee's web site for information, and the design of that tool just misses the mark as far as my needs go.

Then, I don't have the machine tools to make custom Lyman style expanders some folk like to talk about, so have been looking around at the options.

I have found that RCBS has a cast bullet case neck expander which seems to be a much better option.

It gives a choice of sizes for neck expanding and also allows for the slight neck flair usually desired for loading cast bullets.

I have a Lyman "M" die for 30 cal. but it does not expand the neck enough to prevent the movement of bullet metal.

I bought the Lyman "M" for the 30 cal to be used on 30/30, .308, 30/06 and the 300s, and find it to barely be long enough to deal with the shorter cases. Needed to look for better options!

The RCBS unit, because it offers the option for a number of different neck expansion diameters, just seems like the best option of the three.

Once you have the die body, the extra parts for additional neck expansion diameters are inexpensive.

I needed to do some searching before I found the different sizes, and as I recall, found them on a Sinclair loading tool web site.

Thoughts??????

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[GabbyM]

I also like the RCBS expander units as my top choice. I have all three brands. One I love is my RCBS Cowboy die set in 30-30 that comes with the expander. Other is my .224" diameter expander for my 222 Rem. I had a Lyman M die for the 22's but after a few thousand loads it wore just a tad making the bullets to tight for ease of seating and I think accuracy. I still use the Lyman M but for jacketed loads in 223 as a size qualifier after bushing neck sizing with no expander ball to slightly under size. Also use it on brand new brass in station one of my Dillon to qualify the necks. My new RCBS .224" expander has a two step plug like the Lyman design. Which I think may be a new development. Cowboy 30 caliber expander is also two stage just like the M die. RCBS just uses better steel and charges a little more $. I've always been happy with my Lyman M dies. Just wore out the 22 die but then again I still use it for J bullets and it fits perfect. You can also buy new plugs for a few bucks. The Lee is just a flare tool and does not fit my style of re loading.

[dragon813gt]

NOE makes plugs to turn the Lee into a true expander. I'm still using M dies because I have all the bodies and plugs. There are members here that will make you custom expanders for very little money. And you also have Buffalo Arms for custom sizes as well.

[JeffG]

Send Buckshot a PM. He makes custom expander plugs for the Lyman M die body. He made me one for the Mosin, to the dimensions specified. Very reasonable price and works perfect since it is sized exactly to what I needed. He will ask you for some specific dimensions, the length of the plug along with diameter of first and second expander stages. As I recall I did .002 below and .002 above the sized cast bullet diameter I was using.

Ok, how about we go a bit of a different direction from Lyman "M" and the Lee tools.

I simply don't like the looks of the Lee,(OK, I'm not a Lee fan) as I want more then just the case mouth flaired.

I have looked at Lee's web site for information, and the design of that tool just misses the mark as far as my needs go.

Then, I don't have the machine tools to make custom Lyman style expanders some folk like to talk about, so have been looking around at the options.

I have found that RCBS has a cast bullet case neck expander which seems to be a much better option.

It gives a choice of sizes for neck expanding and also allows for the slight neck flair usually desired for loading cast bullets.

I have a Lyman "M" die for 30 cal. but it does not expand the neck enough to prevent the movement of bullet metal.

I bought the Lyman "M" for the 30 cal to be used on 30/30, .308, 30/06 and the 300s, and find it to barely be long enough to deal with the shorter cases. Needed to look for better options!

The RCBS unit, because it offers the option for a number of different neck expansion diameters, just seems like the best option of the three.

Once you have the die body, the extra parts for additional neck expansion diameters are inexpensive.

I needed to do some searching before I found the different sizes, and as I recall, found them on a Sinclair loading tool web site.

Thoughts??????

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[44Vaquero]

Just to add a wrench into this thread NOE Bullet Moulds makes Lyman M-type powder thru expanders for Lee Dies and they also make them to fit the Lee Universal expander die too!

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=91

[BCB]

I use the RCBS expanders (diameter specific) for bottleneck cases. I use the expander plug dies that come with the straight-wall case reloading dies...

I do use the Lee expander when I have boolits that drop a bit undersized for the caliber. I just size the case, don't expand the neck and then use the Lee expander to flare slightly to allow the undersized boolit to seat without scraping the boolit...

Using the Lee Universal Expander now for the 45 Colt as the Lee 452-228-1R drops a bit small in diameter...

Good-luck...BCB