Lyman M die or Lee universal expander

[ds664]

Anyone used both of these? I understand the Lymans are caliber specific, and the Lee is 22 cal thru 45 in one die. Does the Lee appear to work the brass harder than the Lyman? I don't mind spending more for the Lymans if they are easier on brass and/or wokr better. I have a couple of die sets that the expander won't open the case far enough to "easily accept a (cast) bullet.

Thanks

Craig

[Charlie Sometimes]

I've used the Lyman, but I have been wondering the same thing you are asking, too.
I'm sure you'd have to adjust the Lee everytime you change caliber.
The Lee would flare the mouth, and the Lyman would expand it.
I am anxious to see what other replies you get to this question.

[Ben]

There is quite a difference in the design of the two expander dies.

The Lee puts a flare on the outside 1/16 " / 1/8 " or so of the mouth of the case and does NOTHING to the remainder of the walls of the neck of the case.

The Lyman is designed quite differently. It has an expander plug that not only puts a gentle flare ( when it is adjusted correctly ) on the mouth of the case but ALSO opens up the neck of the cartridge case to he appropriate inside dia. in preparation for the seating of a cast bullet.

I very much prefer the Lyman, but I own both.

[glicerin]

The lyman's first step gives friction fit and ALSO straightens case so second step(flare) is uniform all around, assuming neck is trimmed square. The M die, and the multiexpand/powder thru die from lyman both work great. The lee powder thru flaring tool(caliber specific) lacks the two step feature, and can flare offside, especially on small caliber like 30 tok and 32 acp. No experience with universal lee flare tool.

[MT Gianni]

Search for BruceB and the Lee expander. I very much respect his opinion. I have both and rarely use the Lee.

[HeavyMetal]

I agree with Ben these are actually to diffent types of dies.

The Lyman M dies is supposed to expand the case to boolit diameter and flare the case mouth to allow entry of the boolit base without "shaving" the boolit itself.

Typically these look good on paper but , due to Tolarence stacking, sometimes don't work as well as they should. Each M die expander has to be checked for fit and function in each usage.

The Lee die does exactly what it claims: it flares the case mouth and nothing more. This simply allows the case to resize yor boolits if your sizing die is tight!

In my opinion niether really get's the job done!

What I have done: In my 38 special loads I use the Lee expander die to flare the case to allow easy base entry and no more! I then use an expander I have turned on my lathe which is .001 under boolit diameter, in this case .357. The case is run over this expander after the case mouth is flared with the lee die. I made this expander "deep" enough to work on full wadcutters sized at .358 and so far have not had issues with undersized boolits in my 38 target loads!

I have done the same with 44 mag loads with great success as well. No reason why this won't work with other pistol round's.

The M die, in my opinion, is just expected to do to many things at once and does nothing well.

I think a change to a slightly shorter expander length and then lengthen the flaring portion of the M die expander would fix this problem as the flaring portion is simply to "abrupt" to work right.

Just my experience and 2 sense.

[357maximum]

My lee UFD sits basically unused,

M-DIE = much more consitant, accurate

[Charlie Sometimes]

I've always used the Lyman- never any problems with seating bullets of any type, and I'm not sure that brass is strong enough to actully resize your cast bullet completely. I do agree that the flare is too abrupt on the M die. It looks like you are sitting your bullet against an edge rather than a taper.

I thought about getting the Lee and trying it, but from what has been presented so far, I think I'll just stick to my good ol' Lyman.

I'm always looking for a better way of doing things, especially if it works best for me.

[jonk]

I always use the Lee. I find that the M die either does NOT flare the neck enough to start the bullet, or if I screw it in too deep, drastically bells the neck. That sweet spot in between is very small and hard to hit reliably, especially if you are using brass of differing manufactures- and thicknesses- for plinking.

The Lee is consistent at least.

[HeavyMetal]

As for brass sizing the Boolit?

It really depends on caliber and brass thickness.

Odds are 38-40 case's might never do it, garonteed 9mm brass will cut a boolit down to size every time!

If you have one of those "hammer" type pullers make a couple of dummy rounds up with just a flare on the case and then pull them down and check the diameter....think you'll be surprised what you find.

[Calamity Jake]

"M" die is designed to be a two diameter expander, the first expands for a press fit of boolet the second expander at the top is for opening the case mouth for a .001-.003 slip fit of boolet X .020-.050 deep pocket(depending on how deep you adjust it) to make alighnment with case/boolet good and prevent shaving. The small radius at the very top can be used to flair but usually is not needed.
You only need one or two die bodies(the 30 short works real well for 338 and down calibers) and caliber specific expanders(aquired from Lyman or hand made on a lathe) for the calibers you load.

I personaly do not use the M die on pistol calibers as I load them on a 550.

[ds664]

Thanks guys, that is the info I was looking for.

Craig

[sagamore-one]

I load on a Dillon also, but use station # 3 for the M die then seat at #4 .
The powder through expander from Dillon is designed for jacketed bullets and only expands the case a little. It does indeed size cast boolits as you try to seat them.
I like the M die.

[skeet1]

I have been using the Lee Universal Expander on my .303 and .30-06 and find it to be entirely adequate. It will flare the mouth of the case as much or as little as you want. Not only are Lee tools innovative but they are also a very good deal for the money. I am slowly becoming a Lee advocate and I'm starting to wonder why a person would spend more than they need to.

Skeet1

[Kragman71]

I have both
I agree that the Lee die is good;but,for my purposes, the Lyman is better.
Frank

[mike in co]

I agree with Ben these are actually to diffent types of dies.

The Lyman M dies is supposed to expand the case to boolit diameter and flare the case mouth to allow entry of the boolit base without "shaving" the boolit itself.

Typically these look good on paper but , due to Tolarence stacking, sometimes don't work as well as they should. Each M die expander has to be checked for fit and function in each usage.

The Lee die does exactly what it claims: it flares the case mouth and nothing more. This simply allows the case to resize yor boolits if your sizing die is tight!

In my opinion niether really get's the job done!

What I have done: In my 38 special loads I use the Lee expander die to flare the case to allow easy base entry and no more! I then use an expander I have turned on my lathe which is .001 under boolit diameter, in this case .357. The case is run over this expander after the case mouth is flared with the lee die. I made this expander "deep" enough to work on full wadcutters sized at .358 and so far have not had issues with undersized boolits in my 38 target loads!

I have done the same with 44 mag loads with great success as well. No reason why this won't work with other pistol round's.

The M die, in my opinion, is just expected to do to many things at once and does nothing well.

I think a change to a slightly shorter expander length and then lengthen the flaring portion of the M die expander would fix this problem as the flaring portion is simply to "abrupt" to work right.

Just my experience and 2 sense.

one of the things i love about this site....same tools two differnt users, two different results.

i can see no use for a belling tool like the lee...a tool to sure shorten the life of ones brass, and on the other hand could never own enough m dies.
you should never need the flaring part of the tool , just the two steps.
for those that think the m die is not correct for thier use, call lyman and tell them what dia you want and they will make it for you.
i have a lathe and can make my own stems....

mike in co

[TAWILDCATT]

I have used the M die since I got a tru-line jr in the late 50s.I load 30/06 with the tru-line.as I have 5 I load odd batches of calibers. other wise I load on lee turret and my RCBS green machine.38 progressive.after the tru-line I never bought lyman,none of their presses turned me on.now its lee.but the M die is great.

[Hipshot]

Your regular expander/decapping die expands the WHOLE case neck------the reason for the Lyman M die or the Lee die is to BELL the case mouth so that when you seat a lead bullet you do not shave lead fron the sides after you spent so much time trying to cast the PERFECT BOOLET!
The lee die allows you to use the same die to BELL various cases of the same length-example .25-35, .30-30, .32 Spl., .375 Win. .243 W, 260 Rem., 7mm-08, .308 .338 Fed. .358 Win-----well you get the idea !
The only thing you have to get is a regular die locking ring that stays adjusted. After the die is adjusted initially lets say on a .308 the only thing is you have to select the correct expander combo and with a different cal. brass in the shell holder and the ram at the top of the stroke turn down the adjustment knob down until it touches the case mouth---back off on the ram and turn the knob down ABOUT another 1/2 turn.
I have 2 of the Lee dies----1 for .308 length cases and 1 for 30-06/300WM length cases.
It takes all of about a minute to adjust the dies once you have the correct expander combo selected!

Hipshot

[dbldblu]

For cast boolits I want my case neck ID to be .001 less than the boolit diameter to be seated. No way will the Lee do that so I have never bought one. The belling function of most reloading dies leaves the neck ID way too small. Even with the M die I frequently wind up making my own button.

[rmb721]

I have used both for 30/30, but I like the Lee better. I only bell the case just enough so the bullet doesn't catch on the case neck. I don't have a problem with case life either.