Lyman M die or Lee universal expander

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I'm with the men above who mentioned the custom expanders from NOE or Buckshot. There is nothing like a custom made tool specifically made for your exact application. In the long run, you'll likely end up there anyways. I think the Lee expanding die with an NOE expander is one of the better ways to go, with the powder through expanders being perhaps the best idea. After all, the more operations you can combine into one station of a press, the better in most cases. This frees other stations up to add other processes such as a bullet feeder to speed up over all operation.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

But then Dave, there are those of us who have sold our progressives and the only plus for me with that powder through die is the possible saving of one step.

Except, there is no "station" in which to set up the die to allow powder to flow through the expander.

Progressive is gone and I miss it little. Seemed like a good idea at the time. Not!

Anyway, from what I can see on the web and read in the posts above, I think I'll move to the RCBS direction.

Because of the varied 30cal. firearms I hope to feed, with a single cast bullet, and finding the Lyman "M" die on the short side for the shorter cases - 30/30 and .308 -, the RCBS die with a number of sizes of expanders seems like the best of what I am seeing.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

But then Dave, there are those of us who have sold our progressives and the only plus for me with that powder through die is the possible saving of one step Did you miss where I mentioned the Lee expanding die with the Lyman insert? For you folks that have plenty of time and love to go slow and use a single stage, these are perfect.

Except, there is no "station" in which to set up the die to allow powder to flow through the expander. Actually, if you buy/own the right single stage, you can have a station to have a die with a powder measure on top of it that's quickly removeable. It's called adding a LnL bushing to your single stage.

Progressive is gone and I miss it little. Seemed like a good idea at the time. Not! This is subjective and very much depends on the individual. Many get along great with all types of presses from single stage to multi-station progressives.

Anyway, from what I can see on the web and read in the posts above, I think I'll move to the RCBS direction. And you can, but it wasn't your question, but the OP I was answering.

Because of the varied 30cal. firearms I hope to feed, with a single cast bullet, and finding the Lyman "M" die on the short side for the shorter cases - 30/30 and .308 -, the RCBS die with a number of sizes of expanders seems like the best of what I am seeing. You might want to take a stronger and longer look at the Lee expanding die with one of those new M-die inserts in it before you spend your money.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

Best Regards,

Dave

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Thanks Dave.

However, at least at this point, there is nothing I see about the Lee die that would bring me to go that direction.

I do however see a number of things about the RCBS product that look good.

I realize the OP was speaking of Lyman and Lee, but with the number of people posting, the various experiences being written of, I hoped to glean some knowledge form a hands on user of the RCBS product in comparison to the other two.

At this point, having a Lyman "M" die in hand, the RCBS does seem to be an improvement.

Thanks for the information from all! Knowing that the Lyman product is not filling the bill, I'm looking.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Crusty,

I want to point out I didn't recommend the Lyman die at all. But I have a couple of M-die "style" custom inserts for other applications. Having tried the RCBS expanders and made a direct comparison to the M-die custom setup, I found the custom M-die "style" expander inserts to be superior to the RCBS expander. The boolit tends to seat straighter more easily, is compressed much less and takes a better crimp. Note: In the particular application I'm talking about, I seated a wide variety of weights/styles of .38 special boolits into a .38 special case. In all instances, the M-die custom insert was the better device.

So don't get caught up in seeing only the "off the shelf" from the manufacturers. Sometimes, a mix of off the shelf and custom stuff results in the best results.

Also, don't get fooled Lee dies don't perform. I have had and used a lot of Lee die sets in rifle and pistol calibers in the past. The only sets that have surpassed their performance were mixed brands/time periods of dies with custom parts made and added to improve performance.

I still use individual Lee dies for specific applications with great success. But ultimately, the custom mixed setups for the specific applications are giving the greatest joy.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Not coming down on you Dave, or indicating that you recommended the Lyman "M" die.

I'm just trying to get info to solve my need.

As far as Lee goes, I have used far to much of their stuff with questionable results to step into that again.

Have some of their 6 cavity molds that I wish I didn't. The price was right, but I'd be just Oh So much better off if I had paid a bit more and bought a good custom mold from Accurate Molds.

Got what I paid for, and you may have heard the statement about only crying once. Well needing to replace these dies with new ones means I goofed and now must cry twice. Don't like it when that happens.

I am trying to avoid buying any custom expanders if possible, and from what is visible on the net, the RCBS is equal to the Lyman "M" and yes I have owned those dies and have one presently on hand and judging by the appearance, the RCBS is everything the "M" die plus has the ability to buy and change out .30 caliber expander buttons from .308, .309, .310 and .311.

As per the need for something other then a typical 3 die set for straight walled cases, including my 45/70, properly adjusted the dies for every cartridge I've loaded, many with cast bullets, have worked well.

It is just with the .30 cal. bottle neck cases, 30/30, .308, 30/06 and 300 Win Mag. that I am having some issues which I am hoping to solve in the quickest way possible.

Because some of these cartridges are for a son's rifles, he lives in AZ., I need to double up on my purchases, so as said, trying to make this as simple as possible.

Thanks again,

CDOC

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Crusty,

Your mind is not open to new ideas. Best of luck in meeting your reloading needs.

Dave

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Dave, if your last comment is because of my feeling for Lee, well I have just had/tried too much of their junk over the years to tumble again quickly or often.

Good thing there are lots of companies to suit lots of people, but I have been in this game far too long - since the late 60/early 70s - and seen too much questionable stuff to enjoy wasting my money when there are tried and true options still available.

Paying twice for something makes the choice I should have gone with in the first place more expensive then it should have been.

Just reading this morning in the Handloader Magazine (December 2014) issue on the expander subject and at present I still lean towards the RCBS.

Thanks for your input!

The very Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[ballistim]

I'm using the Lee Universal Expander die body with expander plugs from NOE & Track of the Wolf & am very pleased with the results, used to only be able to put a bell on cases with the Lee expander but am able to use the NOE plugs in the Lee expander & works like the Lyman M die.

[jaysouth]

I have been using a Lyman M for a couple of years. It works even better for 308/30-06/30-30 if you get a 31R expander plug from Lyman. Mine measures .309 and perfectly sizes and bell the mouth for .311 cast boolits.

Earlier today, I got an RCBS expander. I have not expanded any cases with it yet, but changing the plugs is much harder than changing plugs on the Lyman.

This is troublesome for me because I have always preferred green over orange because of their customer service and quality of their products. Once you buy an M die, you can expand almost any caliber by buying additional plugs from Lyman or custom made from members here.

RCBS advertises that their die body can be used with any caliber expander plug. Lyman works the same way but they discourage this practice.

[Shiloh]

+1 for the M die. Mine is a .31 long.

SHiloh

[Dannix]

Wow, old thread bump, Shiloh.

For newbies who may read this thread in the future, I'll note here that the Lyman M-die is not necessarily a panacea -- for me it was needful get squared away with a custom plug (via Buckshot).

[gloob]

^+1

I have a couple of die sets that the expander won't open the case far enough to "easily accept a (cast) bullet.

For gas checked bullets, either will work fine.

For non checked bullets, neither one is suitable, IMO. Lyman design is perfect, but they don't make the plugs in the right size for cast bullets. Way too small.

If you want to force the bullet in, use the Lee expander. If your alloy is hard enough, you'll be ok. But if you want to see what cast bullets can do in terms of accuracy and zero fouling, try using a custom expander that expands to the size of your bullet. If your bullet is .xxx, for instance, the expander should be .xxx with a .xxx +4 mil flare step. For a .356 bullet, the expander would be .356, and the flare step .360.

[r1kk1]

400GNR

I'm currently working on a 400 GNR for my next Encore pistol hunt this fall. It is a 30-30 necked to 40 caliber. I use CH4D die body and two of their tapered M plugs to expand the case to 40 caliber. The 1st plug expands the case to 35 caliber and the 2nd plug takes it to 40 caliber. I then use the Lee Universal case flaring tool to use just enough flair to get the bullet started. I generally use nothing bust cast but in this case a condom will do. A 200 grain XTP now resides in the cases so I can fireform the lot. I have Hornady dies for this cartridge but will have CH4D make me a taper crimp die for this cartridge. I will end up using 230-255 grain lead bullets in this cartridge.

500 Linebaugh

I have 5 Hornady dies for this plus a plug from Lyman that is a 50 Rifle M plug. Loading the Lyman or Hornady expander the only difference I see is the Hornady will require an Ultrasonic cleaner to clean the die as the die is one piece. I use 350 grain lead bullets and a taper crimp. It works very well.

455GNR

This is chambered in my wife's revolver and it is a 475 Linebaugh necked down to 45 caliber. She likes 255 to 310 grain lead bullets. We hardly expand the case mouth to allow seating of the bullet as with the very short neck it relies on case neck tension. I will have a taper crimp die made up for this round, right now I use the bullet seating die to seat and then unscrew the seater to crimp. It is a loud and flat shooting wheel gun to shoot!

Swede is making me expander's for some calibers not listed. Until then Lyman M plugs work very well. Buckshot can turn a plug to any diameter and I believe he makes Dillon powder funnels as well.

take care

r1kk1

[burch]

Wow, very informative

[sureYnot]

NOE makes plugs to turn the Lee into a true expander.

Hot dog! I've been googling around for days and didn't think to look there. Ordered a .357 plug today as I have a 9mm that slugs at .3564 groove diameter and the cases swage my pills down to .353 near the base.