Winchester 73' 110yrds, 400yrds and 500yrds Long Distance Shots with a 44-40

[Savvy Jack]

Winchester took the Model 1866 to 1866 Switzerland Trials in Switzerland.
Here are the results from 300 paces (250 yards) to 1,000 paces (833 yards).
These should be from at some sort of rest position because there is also a 300 pace off-hand target as well.


From Winchester's 1873 Catalog

Over-All Size Of Main Target = 6 feet x 6 feet, 6feet x 10 feet for 1,000 pace target.

Large Squares = 6 Inches
Small Squares = 1/10 of one foot (1 13/64")

I left out the 400 Paces Target

44 Henry Rimfire 300 Paces - 250 Yards Off-Hand


44 Henry Rimfire 300 Paces - 250 Yards



44 Henry Rimfire 600 Paces - 500 Yards



44 Henry Rimfire 800 Paces - 666 Yards



44 Henry Rimfire 1000 Paces - 833 Yards

[GL49]

Could it have been done? Could it have been faked? You bet, choose one. I wouldn't have believed Jerry Miculek could pop a balloon at 1000 yards, standing on his hind legs shooting a 9mm revolver. Everyone is right.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3812/9...b3bb384efa.jpg

[Savvy Jack]

Could it have been done? Could it have been faked? You bet, choose one. I wouldn't have believed Jerry Miculek could pop a balloon at 1000 yards, standing on his hind legs shooting a 9mm revolver. Everyone is right.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3812/9...b3bb384efa.jpg

You mean we can't even talk about it?

[GL49]

No, that's not what I was trying to point out.
More and more often at this site someone posts something interesting, (no matter what the topic or what the forum), there always follows reasons why that couldn't happen, must be untrue, here's why it couldn't work, etc. That's great for discussion, I can follow along, learn a lot, form my own opinions, just as everyone is entitled to theirs. One, and only one, of the comments struck me little wrong, I get tired of that every so often. Probably if if had been said in person I wouldn't have given it a second thought, we all know how easy it is to misread or misinterpret what's written instead of what's said.
Usually if I take time to write a reply to a less-than-positive comment (judging from the way I've read it) I just move on and don't post it. This time I clicked the wrong button and it posted. I should have gone back and deleted my reply, I apologize for the post and apologize if I've offended anyone.

Once again, sorry for the comment and I'll keep quiet.

[indian joe]

I spose gotta remember too that winchester was specially selecting rifles at this time (1 of 100 and 1 of 1000) if he was looking for good feedback and knew (or knew of) these blokes as top marksmen - good chance they got a better than average rifle ?

[ddixie884]

The .44 Henry targets are even more impressive. You can't fake targets at major competitions too many witnesses.................

[indian joe]

Could it have been done? Could it have been faked? You bet, choose one. I wouldn't have believed Jerry Miculek could pop a balloon at 1000 yards, standing on his hind legs shooting a 9mm revolver. Everyone is right.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3812/9...b3bb384efa.jpg

yeah I saw that one - I reckon from his reaction he was not expecting to actually hit it but looked like he did !

[HWooldridge]

I would expect the 44 Rimfire slug to start tumbling when the velocity drops below a certain level - and I wonder what the mid range trajectory was at 833 yds. I'm sure it would carry that far but the retained energy and speed would be pretty low.

Back in high school, a friend of mine and I shot an original Colt cap and ball pistol across a large plowed field so we could see the balls hit the dirt. We could not get anything to go further than about 400 yds. when firing at a 45 degree angle. We found several balls laying on top of the ground with no visible marks aside from the rifling. At some point, you run out of steam...

[Savvy Jack]

I would expect the 44 Rimfire slug to start tumbling when the velocity drops below a certain level - and I wonder what the mid range trajectory was at 833 yds. I'm sure it would carry that far but the retained energy and speed would be pretty low.

Back in high school, a friend of mine and I shot an original Colt cap and ball pistol across a large plowed field so we could see the balls hit the dirt. We could not get anything to go further than about 400 yds. when firing at a 45 degree angle. We found several balls laying on top of the ground with no visible marks aside from the rifling. At some point, you run out of steam...

Apparently the 44 Henry did fine. We see time and time again folks dinging a target at great distance with just about anything. Doesn't mean it will kill anything, just means the person was able to do it. On the other hand, 300 yards, the 44 is still deadly when loaded to original ballistics.

[Thumbcocker]

There is a formula i read somewhere that a round ball will only go a certain distance determined by the diameter of the ball like ball diameter x ____ = maximum distance.

Were the .44 bullets hollow based? Does a hollow base like a Mini'e ball hit point forward at a longer distance?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Finster101]

This is making me want to dig the Uberti out of the safe. I think it has been 10 or 12 years since it had a range trip. Heck I might even have to jump in and get the tang sight I bought for it a few months ago mounted. This place if full of bad influences.

[HWooldridge]

These feats are similar in vein to Billy Dixon and the Adobe Walls story when he knocked a horse warrior off his mount at 1200-1500 yards with a Sharps. The Indian wasn’t killed but probably suffered a helluva bruise.

The 44 Henry is probably lethal to 600 yds - I certainly would not stand downrange and let someone fire away at me…

[Savvy Jack]

Original 44-40 BP loads were advertised at 1,325fps. This should be important because it makes or breaks impact velocity at 300 yards. To try an paint a mental picture, the original 44-40 Colt revolvers pushed a 200gr lead bullet over 900fps at the muzzle. Is 900fps enough to kill anything? If so, at 1,350fps at the muzzle....my impact velocities at 265 yards is 951fps and only an 11 degree to 12 degree angle. So, if 951fps is not enough killing power at 265 yards (300 yards), then neither is 951fps at the muzzle of a revolver. I guess what this means is that if a shooter is only getting 950fps from a rifle at the muzzle, he is no better off than a revolver with the same velocity. 300fps difference from 1,000fps to 1,300fps is not a lot.....until you look at the ballistic difference. So one must ask himself, why would Winchester say that...

“The effect of this change [from 44 Henry to the 44-40] is to increase the initial velocity of the arm from about 1,125 fps to 1,325 feet per second."
So why have a 44-40 now days that is performing to less than the 44 Henry ballistics?

[Thundermaker]

[Savvy Jack]

I have always enjoyed watching his videos. That was another good one!

[Savvy Jack]

Gotta love the rain, or at least the day after. Some much needed R&R time....at the range!!

Today's target compared with Winchester's 1866 Switzerland Trials target.
I have the hardest time trying to get photos uploaded here I will just share the link to the photos here:
https://sites.google.com/view/44winc...t/2022-targets

[Savvy Jack]

This image overlay is cool

[Cap'n Morgan]

Remember this scene from "lonesome Dove"? Good fun was had from nearly all the involved...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmYug0g1s2I

[Savvy Jack]

The Battle of Königgrätz

Say what? During the time between 14 June and 22 July 1866, the Prussians fought the Austrians. These battles were well observed by the Swiss. It was here that the Swiss decided that they were in need of modern breech-loading weapons.

The Swiss made a Decree that they would find and arm their sharpshooters and Army with breech-loading rifles on 20 July 1866.

During the 6th and 8th days of October, Winchester had already shipped the Model of 1866 to Switzerland for the Swiss Trials. On these two days the aforementioned targets were made.

On the 12th of October the Swiss government proposed an order for 8,000 repeaters for their best outfits but soon changed the proposal to between 90,000 and 110,000 repeaters to arm all of their soldiers. A condition to the contract would be that Winchester would also provide all of the tooling necessary for the 66's to be manufactured in Switzerland. Winchester could not or would not agree and offered some sort of counteroffer with the Henry rifle. The deal fell quiet and eventually Winchester backed off. I am unsure of the details.

The Report To The Commission For The Introduction Of The Breech-Loading Arms was dated Oct 1866 and published in Winchester's 1873 catalog. The information I posted above is not included in the report. The report talks about the Winchester Rifle - A. The Trajectory, B. The Precision and C. The Rapidity of Fire.

Now you know the rest of the story.

https://sites.google.com/view/44winc...zerland-trials

[pworley1]

Remember this scene from "lonesome Dove"? Good fun was had from nearly all the involved...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmYug0g1s2I

That was my favorite scene.