Just getting into shotgun loading

[Hogtamer]

Remington gun clubs, STS or Nitros work well and are slightly tapered.

[megasupermagnum]

Did you actually measure those at 17.4gr? I generally find the Lee bushings throw lighter than they say. Those should be some nice soft rounds, around 1050-1100 fps. As you found, all hulls are different. Some brands are more unitized, some are all over the map. There's not a whole heck of a lot of difference between most straight wall hulls. Fiocchi, Cheddite, Rio, Federal top gun (2nd and 3rd gen), even Gold Medals are pretty close in all manners except primer size. Tapered hulls like the Winchester AA, super target, and Remington STS and gun club are a different deal, they are much different. In the middle are oddballs like the Federal .090" base wad one-piece hunting hull, and theres a ton of different Remington and Winchester hunting hulls. Federal also used to be mainly a paper basewad, but eventually moved 12 gauge more to plastic. You might still run into some early Federal Top Gun hulls which are paper basewads. They are totally different than the newer plastics. European hulls use different size primers than American hulls. There are workarounds, but I'd just avoid it. Unless you can get Cheddite primers, I'd avoid Cheddite and Fiocchi hulls. Rio's can only use Rio primers, unless you modify the hulls. Fiocchi might sell primers too, but I've never seen them. All American hulls will take American 209 primers. Stick with Federal, Winchester, and Remington, and things are a lot simpler. For your purposes, a Remington is as good as it gets. STS is great, Gunclub is the very good too. The Winchester AA's are ok. Nothing wrong with a Federal Gold Medal either. A lot of what you find at the ranges now are Federal top gun 3rd gen's, which do take American 209 primers. They are great hulls if you get them for free. Seriously, before buying a lot, just go to the local trap range after it gets a little warmer. You can usually get bucket full's of free hulls.

To get you started, I suggest Remington gun clubs. You can get a lot of loads from them before the plastic cracks, and they perform well with lighter loads. They crimp really easily. Right now, I'd just scope through the swapping and selling section here. Post a WTB add if you don't see any.

[Soundguy]

Thanks for the info.

There is a trap range about 50 miles from here. Maybe I will go take a trip with a bucket and check it out. Ditto on the want add.

Thanks for the info on cheddite. I didn't know their primers and hulls differed. Sportsmans Warehouse did sell cheddite primers but are out. I presume a cheddite primer won't fit a us hull?

Last question.. If I want to make a 'fun' 00 load..i presume using the 1 1/8 green dot load date would be safe, if slightly under powered.
Ps. I measured the powder drops. Bushing said 17.4.. I found it dropping closer to 17.1.

[Soundguy]

Ps. On the hulls that have more space and let the crimp dip in. Is there a way to correct that? Perhaps a fiber or cardboard wad over the shot, under the crimp?
Thanks

[megasupermagnum]

The correct answer is that every hull is unique, and you need to use load data just for those hulls. I'm a bit of a daredevil, I'm not scared to mix certain hulls. I mix Winchester AA and Remington gun club's. I load Federal top gun and gold medals the same. Since you are using such a mild load, I don't see any indication you are going to run into danger. Don't just swap willy nilly, but you can get your hulls to work with 17gr Green Dot. There are a bunch of tricks to take up space in the hull. One simple trick is to put a cherrio on top of the shot before you crimp. You can add a 20ga felt, cork, or other size spacer under or over the shot. My favorite is usually just an overshot card. You can buy them or make them. A 20 gauge does fine in a 12 gauge, makes it easier to place. Just that thin disc over the shot takes up a bunch of room.

As for your question on Cheddite primers, no you can use them in American hulls. You can use them in anything except Rio hulls. Primers can, and do vary, but in general American primers are .241", Cheddite and Fiocchi are .242", and Rio is .245". There is a tool that lets you resize primer pockets, but it is slow. Shotgun heads are paper thin, so you can seat the larger primers. You can even seat Rio primers in American hulls. Once they are that size though, you can only go back by using a primer pocket resizing tool. Some claim to have used American primers in Fiocchi and Cheddite hulls, but I don't believe it. .001" doesn't sound like much, but a Federal 209A pretty much falls into a Fiocchi hull on its own. Just the lightest of pressure is needed, and there's no way I could load them without the primer falling out.

[Soundguy]

Thanks. I was thinking about a felt wad or overshot card.
Can't wait till my buckshot mold gets here.

[Half Dog]

Another tidbit. If you use bushings to dispense powder, check the drop weight on each container of powder. I used MEC bushing 33 and took 10 samples to get an average weight. I emptied that powder container and the same bushing dropped 0.6 gr lighter loads in the next powder container.

[atr]

I appreciate this thread as I too am experimenting with shotshell reloading.
atr

[Soundguy]

Thanks

I'm compiling a 'DOPE' chart with lots of notes in my notebook.

[Soundguy]

Same person I got the other stuff from just dropped off an older mec 650. some surface rust on some parts. no bottles.. but perhaps useable as single station stuff if I really get into this. I also have 2-3 other mec press of various styles and pieces in my garage.. Lastly.. he gave me a mec SS77 super sizer that I believe is 12g Again.. some surface rust.. but nothing a scotch bright pad and some rem oil would not remove.

this might be easier than sizing using the ring on the load all...

[Hogtamer]

Cheddite primers work in all US made hulls as well as Cheddite. Fiocchi and Rio hulls take a bigger diameter primer and go into my trash can.

[Soundguy]

Thanks guys I'm soaking it all up taking notes doing more reading I went by my local shooting range today it's a little out of the way but I picked up two big cardboard boxes of shotgun shell hulls. I just ran out there at lunch and just grabbed everything while the ranger was cold and took off and I'll sort them later it was mixed 1612 and 20 but mostly 12 and I'll just sort through it and toss the junk ones that keep the other ones bagged. Found a little out-of-the-way pawn shop on the way back from the range that I hadn't been in before they had CCI 209 primers in Hornady boxes of buck number 4

[W.R.Buchanan]

Same person I got the other stuff from just dropped off an older mec 650. some surface rust on some parts. no bottles.. but perhaps useable as single station stuff if I really get into this. I also have 2-3 other mec press of various styles and pieces in my garage.. Lastly.. he gave me a mec SS77 super sizer that I believe is 12g Again.. some surface rust.. but nothing a scotch bright pad and some rem oil would not remove.

this might be easier than sizing using the ring on the load all...

Don't use Scotch Bright! Use Steel Wool. Scotch Bright will take off the Black Oxide finish on the parts. Steel Wool won't. Also you can touch up Black Oxide finishes with Birchwood Casey Cold Blue.

The Red Paint on those machines cleans up very well with WD 40. You spray it on and let it soak in for a day, then spray it again and wipe it down with a rag, Presto new paint!

Rust on the chrome pieces cleans up with Steel Wool as well. Sometimes if it is really bad I'll use the Wire Wheel on my Grinder. I would take your machines apart and cleanup every piece then reassemble. MEC has replacement parts for anything that is missing or broken.

Been doing this since I was 15 years old when we restored old Honda motorcycles with WD40 and Armor All. We'd buy them cheap Pressure Wash at the Quarter Car Wash. Soak all the metal in WD40 and soak the plastic, rubber, and seat covers in Amor All. Tune up and sell! Probably only did it 100 times. We flipped so many bikes it was almost criminal, and made good money doing it. We also worked at the Honda Shop in Ventura so we had access to many trade ins.

None of your machines are worn out. They have just been neglected, probably by sitting uncovered in a garage some where. Seen hundreds of them. By Cleaning them up you will have essentially new machines to use. Putting a Plastic Trash Bag over them when not in use will save you lots of wear and tear on your machines. Dirt is the biggest enemy of all machines.!!!

Randy

[megasupermagnum]

CCI 209 primers are good. Just be aware that there is a CCI 209 and CCI 209M, and that M is a nice dull red so you hardly see it. Those two primers are completely different, do not interchange. There used to be a Federal 209 and Federal 209A too, but the standard 209 was dropped over 20 years ago. You might still run into data that asks for a standard Federal 209.

As for the Hornady buckshot, just leave it unless it is cheap. Hornady is a good brand, but their shot is soft. I prefer to cast my own and water drop, but BPI's super buck is good stuff too.

[Soundguy]

I've got them all inside now. Will do the steel wool.. That sizer is not bad at all..it just needs dust knocked off and just a microscopic bit of powder rust hit. The red paint is 95% as it is.
Good for free!

Now that I am figuring out the stations and steps in shell reloading.. I *DO* think I can get the MEC presses back into some kind of order. Even if only as a dedicated deprimer.

That 650 with rotary shell holder base looks neat... Multi process.

I might start enjoying this more than metallic shell reloading.... Maybe... ��

[Soundguy]

Thanks. Good to know on the primers. They are cci 209. I grabbed them.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Sounds like you are on your way. I would contact MEC or go online and get the instructions for the Model Press you have. That way you can figure out the loading sequence a little easier.

However just so you know I'll tell you the loading sequence.

1. Size and De-prime
2. Re-prime
3. Charge the hull with Powder.
4. Insert the Wad.
5. Drop the Shot or whatever pay load you are loading.
6. Start the Crimp
7. Finish Crimp.

Steps 6 and 7 can be done with a Roll Crimp instead of a Fold Crimp. That is a completely different operation done with a Roll Crimping Tool ran in an Electric Drill or Drill Press or a Manual Tool.

Hope this helps, but still get the instructions from MEC. https://www.mecoutdoors.com/Content/documents/650.pdf

Randy

[Soundguy]

Thanks. Yrs I plan on printing

[Finster101]

I believe I read somewhere that 2-liter soda bottles can be used to replace the powder and shot bottles.

[Soundguy]

I'll take a look.