An interesting fact about RCBS 338 Lapua dies

[Steve Steven]

I have just tooled up to load 338 Lapua Magnum for my son (what a monster case!), who is into long range shooting. He bought a set of RCBS dies, but when I tried to use them, they wouldn't resize the cases (die would not go all the way down). Looking into it, I saw the die did not have a relieved end on the die, and was hitting the shell plate before it should. I called RCBS and they told me that was by design, the case is so big they are afraid it will split the die if they relieved the die normally. Son took them back and bought Hornady dies which don't have that feature.

Steve

[nhyrum]

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of rcbs as a company anymore. When you think of the price of their equipment and how often people get free parts from them, you're basically buying two of whatever it is at that price. The biggest issue is, just about everyone I've talked to that uses rcbs equipment has had to talk to them at some point. Sure they're nice, but I'd rather never have to talk to customer service at all then talk to a nice person every few months. Plus, even when I've supplied them with correct and current part numbers, I've gotten the wrong parts.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[cwtebay]

Gotta say that's not been my experience with RCBS. My 338LM and 300LM dies are perfect. My 308 Norma dies were less so, I called them, they said it was not in spec on Monday - by Thursday evening I had a set that would spit out perfect rounds.
Perhaps I am easily pleased - love my Redding dies, RCBS, Hornady, Lee......for sometimes different reasons - but ZERO complaints!

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[Nobade]

One issue I have run into with those Rigby based cartridges is the shell holder. Some of them are chamfered at the top and some aren't. The ones that aren't allow the case to hit the shell holder before it hits the bottom, and will give you fits trying to adjust the dies as well as raising a dent that makes the case hang up in the chamber. You must use a shell holder cut for the 416 Rigby, rather than any other like the one for the big Weatherby cases or you will discover this problem.

[cwtebay]

One issue I have run into with those Rigby based cartridges is the shell holder. Some of them are chamfered at the top and some aren't. The ones that aren't allow the case to hit the shell holder before it hits the bottom, and will give you fits trying to adjust the dies as well as raising a dent that makes the case hang up in the chamber. You must use a shell holder cut for the 416 Rigby, rather than any other like the one for the big Weatherby cases or you will discover this problem.

There is a lot of truth there! I lucked into a die set that came with a Holland and Holland double that belongs to a friend of mine. The shell holder is sooooooo much better than anything else I have used for those cartridge types. He claims that they are H&H dies, but I don't know if that's true.
Otherwise, Redding shell holders are my favourite by far for fit.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[thump_rrr]

I have never noticed any issues with my RCBS 338LM dies but I will check again when I get home later.
I also own a set of Hornady 338LM dies to which I added the proper seater stem for the Hornady 285 ELD-M.

[M-Tecs]

I have just tooled up to load 338 Lapua Magnum for my son (what a monster case!), who is into long range shooting. He bought a set of RCBS dies, but when I tried to use them, they wouldn't resize the cases (die would not go all the way down). Looking into it, I saw the die did not have a relieved end on the die, and was hitting the shell plate before it should. I called RCBS and they told me that was by design, the case is so big they are afraid it will split the die if they relieved the die normally. Son took them back and bought Hornady dies which don't have that feature.

Steve

What are you referring to as the " relieved end on the die"? Are you referring to the thread relief on the mouth of the die?

I don't have a 338 Lapua. I do have a set of RCBS 416 Rigby dies that work perfectly. That 416 Rigby is the parent case of the 338 Lapua.

My buddies RCBS 338 Lapua dies have zero issues.

[Steve Steven]

M-Tecs, yes I am talking about the thread relief on the mouth of the die, it is not there. The tech said the Dillon I was using (450) could not be used with the 38LM, but I could use them on a RCBS progressive, it did not have the cutout for the nose of the die like the Dillon.
I was about ready to set up the tool post grinder when my son said he would trade them in for a set that would work

This is a photo of the dies and a shell case, the upper die is the one in question, I had remoced the depriming stem.

Steve

[1hole]

I don't understand what's supposed to be the problem.

Removing a couple of threads from the threaded end of a bolt (which is basically what the exterior of a die is) simply makes it a little easier for us to start the die into the press' threads, otherwise there is no functional difference. External threads or no threads, if the die is correctly bored, the bottom of the "chamber" will be the same. ???

Personal point of view:

The user of any tool is much more important than the color of the box it came in. From the excellent Redding/Forster to the very good Lee stuff, I'm too old and have learned far too much about tools to be childishly blind for or against hyped or slandered inanimate reloading objects. I really do like a (very) few of RCBS' unique tools but other than those special devices and gimmicks I won't pay extra an extra dime to get anything they sell.

[nhyrum]

Oh yeah that relief cut out of the threads is completely a non issue. The issue is probably going to be the opening in your press. I don't think I could load 338 lapua in my 650,b the loaded round is simply going to be too long. It's got NOTHING to do with the dies

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[Shawlerbrook]

Been using RCBS dies and presses for over 40 years without a problem.

[M-Tecs]

I don't understand what's supposed to be the problem.

Removing a couple of threads from the threaded end of a bolt (which is basically what the exterior of a die is) simply makes it a little easier for us to start the die into the press' threads, otherwise there is no functional difference. External threads or no threads, if the die is correctly bored, the bottom of the "chamber" will be the same. ???

Personal point of view:

The user of any tool is much more important than the color of the box it came in. From the excellent Redding/Forster to the very good Lee stuff, I'm too old and have learned far too much about tools to be childishly blind for or against hyped or slandered inanimate reloading objects. I really do like a (very) few of RCBS' unique tools but other than those special devices and gimmicks I won't pay extra an extra dime to get anything they sell.

Without the relief cut the larger diameter will hit the outer ring on progressive presses or the counterbore on the shell plate.

You can see it at the 2 minute point on the video

[remy3424]

Do you not have a single stage press available? I doubt it is the dies that are the issue. Seems odd to me to use a progressive press for something you might only be loading a few hundered rounds for each year. I shoot several hundred rifle rounds at p-dawgs every year and I don't even consider doing them on my Dillon...I know guys will/do. Speed of the process is not what I am interested in when loading rounds I want to be as accurate as possible. Maybe the Dillon is a great choice for loading 338s. Let us know how they shoot, developing a load should be a treat on that press...guessing you will be charging off the press??

[1hole]

Without the relief cut the larger diameter will hit the outer ring on progressive presses or the counterbore on the shell plate.

Ah, a thick progressive press' shell plate! That makes sense. I had interpreted the OP's "shell plate" to mean a conventional shell holder.

It never crossed my mind that anyone would be reloading such a large cartridge on a smallish progressive. I'd want a largish single stage, cast iron "O" press with compound toggle linkage for anything that size.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I recently discovered shellholders are different. I was using a Hornady shellholder and sizing .30-06 in RCBS dies. The resultant case just didn't quite drop flush in a Lyman case gauge. I rummaged around and came up with a RCBS shellholder I had in a ACP die set, and it solved the problem. Just a few thousands, but I thought I had a problem. Thankfully, my M1 Garand doesn't care.

[1hole]

Been using RCBS dies and presses for over 40 years without a problem.

I'm sure that's true but ... ???

I started reloading 57 years ago (1965) with a small Lyman turret press, a Lyman M-5 scale, two sets of Lyman dies plus a Redding powder measure; they all still work fine.

Since then I've happily added an RCII press, a Herters #3, plus a few Lees, and several (used) RCBS die sets. Over the years I've added a lot of other die brands, many no longer made, a few other presses and lots of odds and ends.

On average, my green reloading stuff makes ammo just as good as my old Lyman, and other, stuff ... but no better. Meaning I've not yet had a "problem" using anything so I'm not a brand snob for anyone's inanimate objects! I've saved a short ton of money by NOT buying very much of RCBS' over priced stuff.

[Steve Steven]

Remey2424, no I don't have a single stage available. That with the correct flat top shell holder would have worked fine. I have a Herters 234 6 position press I use as a single stage when I need it, but I don't have a Herters shell holder for a 338 LM. M-Tecs explained it well and you can see the cutouts in the Dillon shell plate well in his video, Thanks M-Tecs!

Nhyrum, I agree, the loss of the threads on the end of the die would not have a significant effect on the strength of the die, I think RCBS was too conservative there. The tech told me that RCBS had several die sets with the sizer die not relieved on the die mouth (he could not name them off the top of his head) for the same reason, strength concerns for the die.

You are right, there is little extra room in the press for such a large case, I have to insert the bullet up into the seating die to seat the bullet, but it is no real problem. I am using the 450 as a two position single stage press, Size, prime on first position, remove case, measure and powder using powder funnel, then insert case in seating position and seat bullet. Each operation done by itself as if on a single stage press.

We just finished shooting ladder loads in the rifle looking for a good load, it was a long day but we found several loads that showed very good ES and decent patterns. 89 grains of N565 with Hornady 285gr A-Tip at velocity 2582 had a good group and decent ES of 9. Might be a bit slow for the ranges he wants to shoot (2200 yards, steel plate with flashing light targets) but we will see.

Steve

[gwpercle]

I recently discovered shellholders are different. I was using a Hornady shellholder and sizing .30-06 in RCBS dies. The resultant case just didn't quite drop flush in a Lyman case gauge. I rummaged around and came up with a RCBS shellholder I had in a ACP die set, and it solved the problem. Just a few thousands, but I thought I had a problem. Thankfully, my M1 Garand doesn't care.

And not just a little different ... but sometimes a lot different .
Shell holders matter a lot and I hate to say negative things about Lee , because I like Lee , but their shell holders aren't the most precise with the closest tolorances ...some are sorta Loosey-Goosey and 75% of the time it isn't a problem ... but every now and again ... those shell holders matter .
The best are from CH4D ...well made close tolerances ...Good quality .
Gary