browning 71 stiff carrier lifting fix?

[hard88cast]

My browning 71 conversion has a quite stiff lever action at the end of the levering stroke as the carrier is being lifted.
My model 71 is basically new, I have cycled the action maybe a 100 times and it has eased up a little. When i drip gun oil on the parts it eases up some more but after the oil gets worked out it seems to stiffen back up.
I would like to learn to take this rifle apart (need help with that) and also wondering if there is a way to loosen some parts up so it cycles the forward end of the lever action easier and smoother.
thanks

[cwtebay]

What caliber was it converted to?
And whom did the work?

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[country gent]

You would need to take it apart and look for "bright" or polished spots on the lifter and mechanism. Wen these are found you can remove them with a fine stone, usually a few passes are all thats needed.

If its new and a new conversion than another less involved method is to sit with it in the evening wet the action with oil and cycle it stop to stop keeping the action wet while you do this. If the stiffness is heavier with a round present then put together some dummy rounds and work them thru while doing this. All your doing here is breaking in the action under controlled conditions. 400-500 cycles will go a long ways to smoothing the action up.

[hard88cast]

It was converted to 50-100, the stiffness is the same as before the conversion. and its only an issue when you are raising the lifter/carrier(which is the correct term?) either with or without a cartridge in place.
Both the rifle and conversion are new and cycling with and without a dummy round feel exactly the same, and my 100 or so cyclings have made a small noticeable difference.

I do want to learn to take it apart so guess I will start with that and go in and hone things down a bit.

Ive always called the part that cradles the cartridge and lifts it up as the "lifter" but when I look at a parts diagram it states carrier, which is correct.
thanks

[cwtebay]

Country Gent is absolutely correct. I had an 1892 redone that was VERY stiff when I got it back. After cycling somewhere around 1000 times, I called my GS who recommended finding the shiny spots and applying jeweler's rouge to them to expedite the process. It did work, but I don't think I would recommend it for general use.
In general, disassembly is remarkably similar to the 1886 - which seems to have more information available.

https://youtu.be/6YWrbNzWmZw

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[hard88cast]

thanks for the link, will start looking into taking it a part.

[cwtebay]

That sounds like an exciting build!
Looking forward to hearing how you like it!

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[indian joe]

thanks for the link, will start looking into taking it a part.

one tip for pulling that Browning down
there is a big screw up under the top tang holds the carrier spring under tension - you might need a rightangle screwdriver to undo that sucker - mine was tight and a slotted head - could not get a straight screwdriver to do it - that spring under tension leans on the hammer pivot screw, you will proly get it out and get the gun apart ok but cant get the hammer screw to take the thread going back in (good way to booger the screw threads) I overcame this problem with a pair of vicegrips with copper over the jaws and squeezing on the spring in question - WOULD NOT RECOMMEND THIS AT ALL!!! --

when you get it apart polish the two lumps on the underside of the bolt where it bears down to cock the hammer - polish them till mirror shiny (jewellers rouge)- check that the middle part of the bolt actually runs clear of the hammer once its on full cock - you can alter that a little by putting a brass shim between the bottom tang and the wood.

DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT !!!!!!!!!! cycle these things (and newish 1886's) slow and easy = they are rough, stiff, clunky, sometimes dont even feed properly ---- throw that lever down and slam it back up like the bear is breathing down your shirtfront and most of that goes away.

Always gonna be a glitch right at the end of the bolt stroke - at the same time you are elevating the lifter against spring pressure the bolt is also pushing down on the hammer again (that seems unneccessary to me but everything else JMB did inside there is critical to function - John Taylor might could shed some light on that puzzle)

I did some work on a Chiappa 86 that wouldnt feed at all when I got it (lifter, carrier hook. new mainspring) - had it apart maybe a dozen times, dry cycled it a couple hundred times - at the end I made a dummy round - sat by the tv - fed the dummy through the gate and cycled it through to eject 100 times (counted every one!) - the full cycling with a dummy round made a heap of difference.

DRIVE IT LIKE YA STOLE IT!!!!!

[country gent]

I dont use the rouge until I confirm the part is moving in a manner true to the other parts (straight and in correct position) as it can also wear a low spot if applied in the wrong area. Once you know where it is needed it will speed up the process.

Its amazing how quick and smooth just working the action will get it, usually better than it can be hand fitted.

[pietro]

.

As alluded to above, 100 cycles isn't going to do it.


I used to break in my guns while watching TV - the noise drove my Green-Eyed Monster a little crazy, but so what ?

.

[John Taylor]

The carrier on your rifle has a spring loaded plunger on the carrier that holds it up ( and also down ). The spring seems a bit strong and may be the problem. The last part of the lever opening has to compress this spring before the carrier rises. once the carrier moves a bit the spring and plunger will cause the carrier to snap up. Before taking it apart tie a piece of wire to the trigger to hold it back otherwise the trigger spring will come out of it's hole and it is a bugger to get back in place. The hammer spring can be put in after the lower tang and hammer are in place. Look at it before taking it apart so you can see which way it goes back in, small end toward hammer (use a pliers to install). It helps if you stick your tong out and bite it while putting it back together.

[hard88cast]

Wow, great info but now you guys are making me nervous taking it apart. I am really surprised at how much the bolt drags on the hammer seems drastic to me, my first that was to cut the underside of the bolt down (which I wont do),. When I hold the hammer fully rear and cycle the lever that really eases things in itself.

For some reason I am not being notified of the posts here, anyone know how I can check that on my end?

[hard88cast]

now that I am at home with my b71 and cycling it am wondering why the underside of the bolt has at least an 1/8" downward pressure on the hammer after the initial cocking of the hammer throughout the stroke. I would think after the initial 1/4" of setting the cocked hammer with the bolt, the rest of the bolt would be undercut so as to not drag on the hammer.
I can actually see the bolt lifting up and dragging on the guide rails(really stiffens the action) the entire lever process due to the hammer and the hammer spring being really stiff.
whats the deal with this, does the original 86 or m71 do the same thing? Fix it or forget it?

[cwtebay]

now that I am at home with my b71 and cycling it am wondering why the underside of the bolt has at least an 1/8" downward pressure on the hammer after the initial cocking of the hammer throughout the stroke. I would think after the initial 1/4" of setting the cocked hammer with the bolt, the rest of the bolt would be undercut so as to not drag on the hammer.
I can actually see the bolt lifting up and dragging on the guide rails(really stiffens the action) the entire lever process due to the hammer and the hammer spring being really stiff.
whats the deal with this, does the original 86 or m71 do the same thing? Fix it or forget it?

I was just sitting here so grabbed a '71 and '86 and can't see what you're explaining happening with either after cycling 25ish times with each.

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[hard88cast]

as i lever the action the bolt comes back and cocks the hammer then the bolt continues its rearward direction and then its forward direction into battery.
There is a lot of upward pressure from the hammer/spring against the bolt the whole stroke and when the bolt finally clears the hammer going into battery the hammer pops up at least an 1/8"

[indian joe]

now that I am at home with my b71 and cycling it am wondering why the underside of the bolt has at least an 1/8" downward pressure on the hammer after the initial cocking of the hammer throughout the stroke. I would think after the initial 1/4" of setting the cocked hammer with the bolt, the rest of the bolt would be undercut so as to not drag on the hammer.
I can actually see the bolt lifting up and dragging on the guide rails(really stiffens the action) the entire lever process due to the hammer and the hammer spring being really stiff.
whats the deal with this, does the original 86 or m71 do the same thing? Fix it or forget it?

HAH! you got one of them too !!!! -- those guys in Japan did NOT understand!!!!

I thought mine was just one gun that slipped through the net and they missed one little step in the machining of the bolt.

My Browning was stiff as an old board - you are correct - the underside of the bolt is supposed to be relieved (undercut) so that once the hammer is cocked then the bolt runs clear of the hammer nose through its stroke.

Get hold of an original 92, - 86, - 71 - they all have the undercut bolt -----FIX IT !! you will have a different gun once its done .

I did mine myself but its not an easy job - really needs a horizontal mill with a large slotting wheel so to get the radius correct at the ends of the cut - I made sure I could obtain a replacement bolt before I started just in case of accidents. I am really surprised your gunsmith did not pick this up in the conversion process ?

There are a lot of these Brownings out there and guys speak highly of them - cant be that they are all built wrong like this? Must be that a small run of bolts got through the system and missed a step in the process ?

My Chiappa 86 bolt is correctly machined.

[indian joe]

as i lever the action the bolt comes back and cocks the hammer then the bolt continues its rearward direction and then its forward direction into battery.
There is a lot of upward pressure from the hammer/spring against the bolt the whole stroke and when the bolt finally clears the hammer going into battery the hammer pops up at least an 1/8"

yeah its wrong - no question -

[indian joe]

I was just sitting here so grabbed a '71 and '86 and can't see what you're explaining happening with either after cycling 25ish times with each.

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original guns? or Browning repros? and if so what vintage Brownings?????

[hard88cast]

When I do a little more investigating Into the workings of the lever and have the nerve to take it apart I will undercut the bolt, its nuts, way to much pressure on the guide rails.
I do have a mill and will do it with a carbide end mill and finish the radius by hand.
When I pin down my hammer with a string the action works very easy, still need to mess with the carrier lifter spring, thats another issue.

[cwtebay]

original guns? or Browning repros? and if so what vintage Brownings?????

Original.
71 from 1937
'86 from 1886


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