So what's this 45. Special?

[Johnny_Cyclone]

If I had a dollar for every SAA style 45 ACP cylinder that was modified to take 45 Auto Rim to meet the SASS rim requirement prior to .45 Cowboy Special coming out, I'd have a new roof on my shop.

[StrawHat]

In my S&W double action 45 ACP revolvers I use ACP cartridges in moon clips or 45 Auto Rim cartridge. In my 45 ACP single action revolvers, I use ACP cartridges or 45 Cowboy Special cartridges. (It is nice to have choices!)

For all three cartridges, I use the same reloading dies and recipes, just different shell holders.

And, I am having a cylinder cut for the 45 S&W Special cartridge for my New Century revolver.

Kevin

[ddixie884]

That is cool. Sort of a 1907 Trials gun tribute.......

[StrawHat]

That is cool. Sort of a 1907 Trials gun tribute.......

Exactly! I read about the trials and how S&W created the new cartridge and revolver for it. They had high hopes the Army and therefore the general population was going to accept them both. Unfortunately, the Army nipped that thought in the bud. The silver lining is the general population loved the New Century revolver.

There are only two of the 45 S&W Special revolvers in existence. I have a New Century 455 that was poorly converted to 45 long Colt. I also have a 38 S&W Special, N frame cylinder that will be sent off to be bore and chambered for the 45 S&W Special cartridge. Then, the fun begins working up a load.

Just to be perfectly clear. The 45 S&W Special is NOT the same as the 45 Cowboy Special. Two different cartridges.

Kevin

[ddixie884]

Yes close but no cigar..........

[Dale53]

The .45 Cowboy Special works really well in the .45 ACP cylinder of my convertible SS Ruger Bisley (.45 ACP/.45 Colt). It allows use of any bullet that has a crimp groove (better performing wide meplat bullets as a for instance). I find the .45 Cowboy Special cases very useful for particular uses.

Just a thought or two...

Dale53

[Mackay Sagebrush]

Sounds like a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist.

These are 5 shot 50 yard groups using a 200 grain SWC at 935 FPS.



With the short case, the powder sits more uniformly and the accuracy is readily apparent.



Perhaps people should get some actual experience before they cast stones...

[DougGuy]

These are 5 shot 50 yard groups using a 200 grain SWC at 935 FPS.

With the short case, the powder sits more uniformly and the accuracy is readily apparent.

I was just thinking about one of the biggest gains of the rimmed cartridge is that you can use whatever type of crimp you like. In Mackay's photos two things are apparent. 1st the groups, the excellent groups, but the part of the photo that got my attention was the bulge that shows a good deal of case neck tension which will add resistance not unlike unrolling a good roll crimp. I am sure this is a contributing factor in the group sizes.

[Baltimoreed]

C45S should be a dandy revolver round. My 625 45acp is a super shooter. They are basically the same .45 case, one with and one without a rim. I have some brass but haven’t experimented with any yet.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Hey one thing folks are over-looking, those are CUTE cartridges in Mackay’s pic.
The proportions just look right.
And getting 200 grains of boolit in the 900’s is a very useful and shootable thing for a 4” gun.

Looking at those 50 yard groups. He’s got all the parts working right.
Good looking gun too.

[bisleyfan41]

The .45 Cowboy Special works really well in the .45 ACP cylinder of my convertible SS Ruger Bisley (.45 ACP/.45 Colt). It allows use of any bullet that has a crimp groove (better performing wide meplat bullets as a for instance). I find the .45 Cowboy Special cases very useful for particular uses.

Just a thought or two...

Dale53

This exactly. With the rim setting headspace in an ACP cylinder, you can roll crimp into the crimp groove of the heavier bullets intended for the 45C. Side benefit is the accuracy that Mackay illustrates.

[StrawHat]

C45S should be a dandy revolver round. My 625 45acp is a super shooter. They are basically the same .45 case, one with and one without a rim. I have some brass but haven’t experimented with any yet.

Baltimoreed,

I just got around to re-reading this thread. I believe you may have confused a thing or two. Yes, the 45 Cowboy Special and the 45 ACP share basic dimensions. They also share those same dimensions with the 45 Auto Rim. Where they differ is in the rim. The ACP, is rimless. The Cowboy Special and the Auto Rim both have rims but they vary in thickness.

Your S&W Model 625 is set up for the 45 ACP cartridge and moon clips. The dimension from the muzzle end of the moon clip to the rear of the case head is duplicated by the dimension of the rim on the 45 AR.

The 45 Cowboy Special is for use in ACP cylinders that do not require moon clips for extraction.

Kevin

[rockrat]

My S&W 25-2 has tight headspace I suspect. The 45AR cases drag on the recoil shield, but I can use the 45 special cases and everything works just fine.

[knifemaker]

Char-Gar said:
I am probably delusional, but I have convinced myself that a rimed case (45 Cowboy) in my SA 45 ACP cylinders will give more positive and uniform primer ignition that an ACP case that headspaces on the front of case. I not putting any money on this theory or have any targets to prove it, but there you have it.
__________________________________________________ _______________________________________________
You are correct. I cut down 45 scholfield cases to 45 acp length and use them in my Ruger Vaquero in 45acp caliber.

[Catshooter]

My S&W 25-2 has tight headspace I suspect. The 45AR cases drag on the recoil shield, but I can use the 45 special cases and everything works just fine.

If decent AR cases drag the recoil shield, and everything is clean with nothing under the extractor star, then yes, sounds like headspace.

Forty Five Specials have the same rim diameter as the .45 Colt, so what, .035 or .040 less than an Auto Rim case. Not a good idea to fire those in an Auto Rim chamber. All pistol cases slam into the chamber face/recoil shield during ignition but that's really giving them a running start.

Your gun, you do you. Just for info.

[Walks]

I load .45ACP & .45AR for S&W 1917's and Ruger Blackhawks.
.45Colt & .45S&W Schofield for Colts, Vaqueros/Blackhawks and Ubertis.
I just don't see the purpose to .45special. So you can load the cases by mating up a .45Colt shell holder and .45ACP dies.
For featherweight black powder loads, maybe....
I can only see this being useful to the few remaining Cowboy Shooters.
Unless you just want something else to "play" with.

[StrawHat]

My S&W 25-2 has tight headspace I suspect. The 45AR cases drag on the recoil shield, but I can use the 45 special cases and everything works just fine.

If decent AR cases drag the recoil shield, and everything is clean with nothing under the extractor star, then yes, sounds like headspace.

Forty Five Specials have the same rim diameter as the .45 Colt, so what, .035 or .040 less than an Auto Rim case. Not a good idea to fire those in an Auto Rim chamber. All pistol cases slam into the chamber face/recoil shield during ignition but that's really giving them a running start.

Your gun, you do you. Just for info.

Cat shooter,

The diameter of the rim has nothing to do with headspace. The 45 AR has a rim that is about .090”. The 45 Colt, and 45 Cowboy Special, rim is about .060”.

I suspect there is some dirt or powder under the extractor on the S&W Model 25-2. Either that or the poster is loading the Cowboy Special to a different length. If he is loading the cartridges to headspace on the mouth of the cartridge case, they should both work.

Kevin

[gunther]

Strawhat: Where did you find the info on the 1907 trials? Ought to be a good read. Thanks.

[Froogal]

Sounds like a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist.

Exactly!! If you don't like the recoil of a .45 Colt, then get something smaller.

[Soundguy]

So is 45 special a rimmed or a rimless cartridge, and what cylinder does it fit? one for 45 colt.. where it headspaces the rim.. or 45 acp and headspaces on the case mouth. So far I have read contradictory information on this.