Cleaning the oxide off old lead (unlubed) bullets

[texasmac]

Contrary to what many think, handling clean lead is not a major health issue, it’s the white lead oxide that forms on lead that’s the problem. So I thought I’d pass along a trick I learned to clean the lead oxide off old unlubed cast lead bullets. The bullets had been stored for over 30 yrs. I suspect that using a vibrator or tumbler with media should clean them but I was looking for a method that would not result in lead oxide dust contaminating the media. Not being a chemist or having a chemical background (failed chemistry in college) I tried several solutions in an attempt to clean them. I tried Dawn dishwater detergent – no good, vinegar - nope, CLR (calcium/line/rust remover) - nope, and muriatic acid (a diluted solution of Hydrochloric acid – the stuff commonly used to maintain the PH level of water in swimming pools). The muriatic acid worked great and is available at just about any hardware store. Stirring the balls in the acid every 5 minutes or so removed all the oxide in about 15 to 20 minutes. After pouring off the muriatic acid, washing them in water and letting them dry, they were ready to load.

BTW, I do not suggest leaving the bullets soaking in the acid for much longer than 30 minutes. Lead does initially react with hydrochloric acid but it forms an insoluble coating of lead chloride so further reaction is prevented. But if you allow the bullets to soak for an extended time the lead chloride can thicken and is reported to turn whitish. BTW, I doubt using muriatic acid would be a good solution for lubed cast bullets but have not tried it.

Wayne

[Thumbcocker]

I so want to make a middle school comment; but I like being on this forum.

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[NyFirefighter357]

Wet tumbling works well for this

[oley55]

As with so many things, the solutions to a problem often create bigger problems. So I must ask what is your environmentally safe method of disposing of your used/old acid? I also wonder what compound/s are created when the lead-oxide is dissolved or altered by the muriatic acid.

All that said, I would be concerned that my rinsing methods left some residual acid behind that would attack the brass.

[cwtebay]

If memory serves, that should make chlorine gas and lead chloride (plus water). While I am all for novel processes - think that one may be a bit much?

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[texasmac]

[QUOTE=cwtebay;5361900]If memory serves, that should make chlorine gas and lead chloride (plus water). While I am all for novel processes - think that one may be a bit much?

Nope, mixing lead (Pb) and hydrocloric acid (HCl) results in hydrogen gas (H2) and lead chloride (PbCl2)
The chemical formula is Pb + 2 HCl -> H2 + PbCl2. Note, as a chemical formula it balances out.

There's no residue left behind that will attack the brass. The hydrogen safely disperses in the air and safely disposing the used acid is no different than pouring it in a swimming pool. Remember, muriatic acid is HCl already diluted with water. Actually I poured it in a commode full of water and flushed it into our septic system. The small quantity will only result in decreasing the PH of the septic water as it does in a swimming pool and the lead chloride has no effect.

Wayne

[texasmac]

I so want to make a middle school comment; but I like being on this forum.

OK Thumbcocker, I can't wait to hear your middle school comment.

Wayne

[cwtebay]

Not arguing with your chemistry, but I was understanding that the purpose of the process was to remove the offending "crust" so the reaction is between lead oxide and hydrochloric acid (yes dilute), not elemental Pb.
And the equation balances with formation of H2O and Cl2 (chlorine gas) because it takes 2x. of the HCl to react to the PbSO2 ( I believe).
Not pretending to be a chemist, and HATED it in highschool, undergrad and grad school - but it left me with deeply scarred memories of balanced equations. If I am wrong, apologies!


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[texasmac]

Wet tumbling works well for this

Yep, I certainly agree that would be another option. If I have to do it again I'll most likely wet tumble with ceramic media.

Wayne

[cwtebay]

I so want to make a middle school comment; but I like being on this forum.

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Am I safe to assume it has to do with the "mixing with the acid" part?

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[cwtebay]

You are correct. Thanks for catching my mistake. The correct forumla is PbO2 + 4 HCl → 2 H2O + Cl2 + PbCl2. But it's still safe as the chlorine is absorbed in the muriatic acid water as it is when chlorine gas is injected into drinking water to purify it. Chlorine is water soluble. What one would not want to do is mix lead chloride with pure hydrochloric acid which would release the highly poisonous chlorine gas without water to absorb it.

Wayne

Oh whew! When I read your reply I broke out in a cold sweat, thrown back in time to my British O-Chem professor staring me down.......bloody terrifying!!! (See!! Even his colloquialisms soaked in!!)

I did effectively exterminate my undergrad condo complex with an accidental creation of chlorine gas a few decades ago......

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[texasmac]

cwtebay,

Interesting. My response disappeared from this thread but you captured it and responded prior to it disappearing.

Wayne

[Bent Ramrod]

The only common soluble salts of lead are chlorates, acetates and nitrates. Lead chloride is partially soluble; if there’s a lot of it, it will dissolve in hot water and precipitate back out when the water cools. But a little bit will dissolve in cold dilute HCl, so the thin skin of lead oxide will also, dissolving much faster than the lead itself. Remember that stomach acid will also dissolve elemental lead and its oxides, so it isn’t a good idea to get too slap-happy (my old high-school chem teacher’s term for poor chemistry practice) with your handling of any lead.

It’s only lead peroxide, PbO2, that oxidizes HCl to chlorine. That’s my favorite part of submarine movies, next to the depth-charge bombardments: when the boat is hiding 100 meters deeper than the shipyard hull rating and they discover the storage batteries are wet with seawater and the chlorine is coming out from the battery acid and plates.

I would think vinegar would work as well, although the acetic acid is very dilute and warming might be needed. Also, disodium EDTA should form a nonacidic soluble complex with lead oxide, though I can’t recall having tried it myself.

You did pour soluble toxic lead salts into the water system when you flushed that stuff. Mix it with a solution of sodium sulfate (I think it’s called Epsom Salt) next time, and the lead sulfate will filter out. Take that to the hazmat disposal site, neutralize the liquid with Drano crystals or household ammonia, and then it should be safe to dispose of.

Me, I’d just shoot the oxidized bullets, dipping or wiping a fresh coat of lube on them.

[texasmac]

Thanks Brent Ramrod. OK, as they say 3rd times a charm.

The correct formula is 2PbO + 4HCl → 2PbCl2 + 2H2O. So there's no chlorine formed to worry about. As noted earlier I'll just wet tumble if I need to do it again.

Wayne

[mdi]

Anybody remember how a lead acid battery works? Same reaction...

[popper]

Just melt them and re-cast. Much safer and cheaper.

[gwpercle]

I so want to make a middle school comment; but I like being on this forum.

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I was thinking the same thing ...

So I'll just say be careful when handling muriatic acid , it is extremely caustic , can eat through the pants legs of blue jeans , canvas sneaker tops and eat holes in tee shirts and burn bare arm skin if you don't wash it off fast enough . What I have said was learned the hard way ... through experience ... not cleaning boolits but disposing of 48 leaking gallon jugs of muriatic acid at the company I worked for ...that stuff is nasty ,

I believe I would just lube - size the boolits and Choot Em' .
Gary

[Hueyville]

Used to cast boolits in large amounts to supply local IPSC community till my hobby business began taking up too much hobby time. Still cast bullets 10,000 and more in one session so don't have to fire up the furnaces weekly with some boolits ending up sitting over a decade before sized/lubed or longer. All this extra work and chemistry is for repacking primers and other beneficial projects. If come across a container of bullets cast up many years ago for seldom used purpose just size/lube and shoot. Wear a pair of disposable gloves while sizing/lubing if a worrier.

Had a chemistry teacher who didn't run the reaction beyond result of making table salt before approving my project to make two liters of chlorine gas and react it with sodium metal. He just read table salt as my end result of project but didn't mention the violent release of heat and light in the process. Even my convoluted contraption to pull the glass stoppers and drop the sodium into chlorine gas outside on soccor field did not really get his attention till... Everyone should have kept their high school and college chemistry books as will find uses for them well into their golden years.

[ioon44]

I would melt and re-cast.

[Gtek]

In the pot they go!