357 MAG 160gr H&G #51 2400 ..AGAIN..

[pdman]

Hey ALL...What is the consensus re a max load of 2400 with H&G #51 160gr. 357..?? I am getting 1322fps avg of 10 with 13.5gr 2400
in my 5" Ruger GP 100...CCI 500 primer...Starline brass..Lyman #2 Alloy..sized to .358"...the bullets avg 157gr lubed...the mold is a LATE H&G #51..the 13.5 load shows very round primers with no signs of pressure... it sure seems that i can increase the amount of 2400..
just how far...???? Seems that 14 & 14.5 may go over 1400FPS...!!!??
Just how far would any of y"all push current production 2400...??
Thanks to all..
Pete in central TEXAS...

[ddixie884]

It varies with the COAL. Somewhere around 14 to 14.5 as you said. Alliant 2400 may be a little faster than the older Hercules. You are on the right trail to get max from your components..........

[pworley1]

You can go higher but I stopped at 14g.

[Larry Gibson]

I use 14 gr of 2400 under my 162 gr 358156s in Winchester cases with SP primers. They run 1375 fps out of my Ruger 6" barreled Security Six. The pressure as measured in a Contender barrel via an Oeler M43 PBL runs 32- 33,000 psi. Upping to 14.5 gr 2400 puts the psi right at the SAAMI MAP for the 357 and that load runs 1400+ fps out of the Ruger. Your 13.5 gr load at 1322 fps out of a 5" barreled Ruger GP100 with a probable different seating depth, slightly lower bullet weight, different lot of powder, etc. with other probable variations should put you up into the same pressure levels. 14 gr of 2400 should be worth a try if you think the extra 50+/- fps will be an advantage.

[lotech]

I've used the H&G #51 for many years in both .357 Magnum and .38 Special. I no longer load any magnums, but used to use 12 grains #2400. I realize that's not exactly a magnum load, but it was pleasant to shoot and it was more accurate than 13 grs. #2400, at least for me. All the suggestions cited here are likely quite safe. I'm sure data for similar bullets with about the same bearing length and with a similar cartridge OAL are fine, but you seldom see any data specifically for the #51.

[Walks]

2nd on Larry's load.

[pdman]

HEY ALL>...Thanks for your help...!!! Am going to try 14.0gr. 2400 next...
Pete in central TEXAS

[Jack Stanley]

When ever I try out a new .357 , the load it likes is not to far from 13.5 of 2400 with 150 to 160 grain bullets .

Jack

[Rodfac]

13.5 gr. of 5-yr old 2400, has worked very well indeed for me with Lyman's 358156gc also Mihec's 360156gc. I size to 0.358" for two 4-5/8" Ruger BH's, a pair of 4" Smith M-66's, a pair of 4" M-19's, a Smith 686, and a 5" Smith M-27. All this, just to be safe, is put up in .357 brass....same with the loads below.

Alloy is 2:1 ACWW to Sn, with 50-50 lube and annealed Hornady gc's. I use Starline .357 brass, trimmed to uniform length & Winchester Small Pistol Primers. Chrono'd in the 5" M-27, I get 1358 fps. Ejection is no problem, and primers look ok...but I don't load any higher...over 1300 fps from 4-5" guns is plenty good enough I think.

I've tried this load through my M-60 Smith with its 3" bbl. but found that recoil is right up there, even with Hogue Monogrips. I've reduced it to 12.0 gr for the little J-frame. Accuracy, though, was great...~1" @ 12 yds, SA from a Weaver Stance. Chrono'd, I got 1094 fps from the 3" bbl. with an ES of 25...pretty good load but a handful... (A better combination for my use has been 5.1 gr of Bullseye for ~940 fps from the 3" M60...much more manageable, a duplicate of the old FBI load in fact.)

Accuracy with the 4"+ guns has been all that I could hope for with current eyes: < 2" @ 25 yds from a seated back rest position, gun held between my knees...tough on the levis but a good steady rest. Keith's old, long range position.

From my Marlin 1894CS, I size to 0.359+" with the same components. I've chrono'd this combination as well at 1609 fps. Accuracy runs less than an inch at 50 yds with a 2.5x scope mounted. Zero leading. This is a good deer load inside 75 yds or so, and the light carbine makes for a good/great close-in brush country hunting gun. It's my standard load for the Marlin, and I can count on the accuracy if I take a little time inspecting bullets as I size and lube.

Best regards, Rod

[Forrest r]

A couple years ago I did testing with these bullets and a couple others not pictured. You're H&G #51 (bottom right/had 2-cavity mold with hp pin in 1 cavity) was included among the testing. I tested these bullets in a snubnosed 38spl (2" bbl).
[IMG][/IMG]

Of those bullets pictured above these 4 consistently had higher velocities then the rest. As much as 70fps over other bullet designs. What they have in common is either large bullet bases/bottom drive bands, gas checks that seal quickly or long solid bodies that seal better/faster. These designs do the same thing in the 357mag's, IE higher velocities for the same loads.
[IMG][/IMG]

I also tested the top row 2nd from left bullet in the 357mag's using 2 1/2", 2x 4". 3x 6", 8" & 10" bbl's doing head to head testing with 2400 VS H110 VS MP-300. I'm bringing up that MP 640 bullet I used for the 357mag testing simply because it's a 158gr bullet with a small base/bottom drive band that similar in size to the base of the H&G #51.

I've ran the mp-640 up to 15.0gr of 2400 & ended up setting with a 14.7gr load. While 15.0gr of 2400 seems like a lot it really isn't. Lyman lists the 368156 with a max load of 14.0gr of 2400, 358477 with a 15.0gr max load of 2400 & the 358311 with a max load of 15.5gr of 2400. The biggest difference in those different bullets/loads isn't so much the seating depth, it's how fast they seal the cylinders/bbl. Efficiency ='s less powder for the same pressure.

Anyway, when testing I started with 13.5gr and went up in .2gr increments loading 10 rounds of each load. I held the revolver up (powder up position) and lowered it down for every shot while testing over a chronograph. I was looking for 2 things, loads where the sd's/es's were lower than the rest of the test loads. I was also looking for what's known as diminished return. Diminished return is when you do ladder testing, and the velocities keep climbing at a fairly consistent rate. When I got to the point that more powder really didn't do much for velocity it's telling me I've maxed out what my bullet can withstand.

That 8/9bhn 158gr mp-640 bullet tapped out at 14.7gr of 2400 doing 1200fps in a 2 1/2" bbl'd revolver, just over 1300fps in a 2x 4" bbl'd revolvers and +/- 1400fps in 3x 6" bbl'd revolvers

[dverna]

Forrest r,

As a "numbers guy", I like seeing folks that do a lot of testing to determine what the "truth" is. Nice work!!!

[Larry Gibson]

Forrest r's post is excellent as usual. The reason for different fps (and psi) with different bullet designs, even though the weight may be relatively the same, is more than likely a function of seating depth. Even a small difference in seating depth can make a seemingly large difference in velocity becasue the deeper a bullet is seated the higher the pressure will be with a given load.

[Alstep]

I just tried some 2400 today in my 4" Ruger GP100. First time using this powder in a 357. 11.0 grains starting load turned this gun into a real shooter. I was using an RCBS 38-150-SWC bullet. I've tried all kinds of loads & boolets in this gun, and it was just an OK shooter until now. 9 out out 12 shots in the X ring on the NRA 25 yard target, the other 3 real close. Hands & forearms supported over a rest, factory irons & my 80 year old eyes. Nice sunny day & 25*.
Made my day! Didn't think I still had it in me.

[50target]

I settled on the middle ground at 13.7 gr of 2400 and shoot 158-173 gr bullets with & wo gas checks and standard primer. Speedy and accurate in Contender and N frame S&W's and is more accurate than I can get out of it as my son showed me one day.. steadier hands and younger eyes. It is my standard load in heavy frame guns.

Bob

[Giggles]

Forrest r's post is excellent as usual. The reason for different fps (and psi) with different bullet designs, even though the weight may be relatively the same, is more than likely a function of seating depth. Even a small difference in seating depth can make a seemingly large difference in velocity becasue the deeper a bullet is seated the higher the pressure will be with a given load.

Larry, i think the thing that counts is consistent crimping. Particularly with off brand powder charges.

followed by chamber size to actual loaded cartridge case dimensions

[Larry Gibson]

Contrary to popular myth I have not been able to produce any measurable difference in either velocity or pressures when comparison testing a medium roll crimp to a hard/full roll crimp with heavy 357 magnum loads.

[Giggles]

Contrary to popular myth I have not been able to produce any measurable difference in either velocity or pressures when comparison testing a medium roll crimp to a hard/full roll crimp with heavy 357 magnum loads.

I gave up using bulls eyse for my revolver because i noted the following things..

1. any charge and teh best seating depth control and crimp control gave me horrid accuracy at 20
2. increased the loads by 10% and inserted into a magnum case, same crimping and suddenly the grouping went down 30% WITH HBWC and LSWC from speer.

3. did some testing where i never crimped and groups went up.