I’d like a little 30 cal pocket pistol but this isn’t it . A 308 110-115 going 1000 FPS in a small , slim , single stack auto would be a lot of fun .
At least I could use the 30 carbine shell holder .
|
   
   
|
|
I’d like a little 30 cal pocket pistol but this isn’t it . A 308 110-115 going 1000 FPS in a small , slim , single stack auto would be a lot of fun .
At least I could use the 30 carbine shell holder .
Hardly, the 3 1/2 12 gauge came out as a joint venter between Federal and Mossberg in 1988. The press was 100% negative and sales were not much better. That changed in 1992 when the Benelli Super Black Eagle was introduced. The press was still mostly negative for both the SBE and the 3 1/2" 12 however the waterfowl hunters weren't buying the press. They were buying the SBE and 3 1/2" 12 gauge. The lead shot ban for waterfowl went in effect in 1991 negating most of the might 10-gauge Mags advantage over the 12's without the bloated weight the 10-gauge guns had.Originally Posted by megasupermagnum
As to the popularity of the 3 1/2 what manufacture does not produce a 3 1/2 12 gauge in their lineup?
Agree 100%.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 02-21-2022 at 08:36 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Most brands still have at least one model chambered 3 1/2". I only mean that it is no longer a 100% required selling point like it was in it's heyday. The last two from Benelli, the Vinci and SBE3 are 3" guns. And yes I am aware there is a special model of both that do accept 3 1/2", but the vast majority are 3" guns. Mossberg hasn't came out with a 3 1/2" in forever. Remington's only attempt at a true ground-up 3 1/2" pump action, the 887... well that explains itself.
What I'm trying to say is that in 2000, if Benelli had come out with the SBE3, it would have been the end of the SBE line. Instead today, it is a great shotgun because few people want to be shooting nearly 10 gauge loads in 7 pound shotguns.
https://www.benelliusa.com/shotguns/...gle-3-shotguns 16 models in 3 1/2" and 10 models in 3" only so the 3 1/2 is hardly a special model. The shop I work part-time at stocks the 3 1/2" but the 3" are special order only.
The 3 1/2" has not fallen out of favor with the late season goose hunters and turkey hunters. If the SBE3 was offered in 10 gauge without the ludicrous weight of the Ithaca and Rem. Mag 10's it would sell very well.
When the SBE came out in 1992 everyone offered 3" mag 12's yet the 3 1/2" 12 became very popular for the goose and turkey hunters. I own 3 SBE's all H&K imports. The SBE3 has a couple of advantages and one disadvantage. If I wanted I could get the newer version but I am very happy with what I have. They all handle 1 oz to 2 1/4 oz loads perfectly. The 2 1/4 oz lead turkey load does get your attention.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
That's your opinion, but you will never convince me that the 3 1/2" 12 gauge is anywhere like it was 20 years ago. I don't personally know any turkey hunter that uses a 3 1/2", and while you have a point on late season goose hunters, I have yet to meet a single one that doesn't drool like a dog over my Ithaca Mag-10. The sad thing is you are probably right about the weight thing. If someone came out with an 8 pound semi-auto 10 gauge it would sell like hot cakes... and right next to the counter would be 2 pound "recoil reducers". Waterfowlers love to trick out their guns.
I've owned 3 Mag 10's the first was an Ithaca Deluxe that I sold to help pay for college. The second was a replacement for the one I sold. It was one of the last of the Ithaca production and it was truly a piece of junk. I replace that with a Browning BPS 10 gauge. All of them were heavy and swung like a fence post. Great for pass shooting but shooting behind due to the slow swing was common on the first shot out of the blind. Enter the SBE. Hit percentage went way up and cripples went down. About 10 years ago I got a deal on a Remington Mag 10. That was the best of the Mag 10 but it still had the weight problem and it never got used so I sold it.
Yes I would love to have a 7 1/2 pound 10 gauge SBE and no it would not get weighted down with "recoil reducers". I haven't seen 10 gauge steel loads over 1 5/8 oz. I shoot 1 9/16 in the 12. Recoil would be about the same.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Again, that's your opinion for good reason. Most of us have since given up on the 3 1/2" 12 gauge. A good number still buy those guns, either because they only come that way, or because, why not. Not very many still buy 3 1/2" shells. There's no way to prove it, but I'd bet more than 90% of hunters who buy 3 1/2" 12 gauge steel shot ammo are either under 21 and/or not very good shooters looking for any advantage. I'm not saying that is you, you found what works for you. I can only speak for what I've seen from my small group of friends, and anyone I've met. Nobody is using 3 1/2"'s anymore. Especially when you are talking field hunting, The 3" Kent is almost a running joke it is so common. Anyone looking for more has given up steel shot. I did once I realized I could get more from a 2 3/4" shell than the nastiest 3 1/2" steel shot. One of my friends shoots nothing but Kent Tungsten at geese. Most guys shoot whatever is cheapest today since it all works under 35 yards.
From my impression of the cartridge, it appears to be (in a really dumb way to say it) a .40 S&W style middle ground between 9mm and .380 ACP. It appears that they squeezed additional magazine capacity for the cartridge by making the whole cartridge narrower but also longer at the same time. I'm certain that it's bound to have some degree of popularity in the defensive crowd. However, I don't see myself getting any firearms chambered in it in the future. I wonder how long it will take for RCBS, Dillion, and Lee to make reloading dies for the cartridge!
The thing is I am not basing my opinion on a "small group of friends". I am basing it on sales in the gunshop and what I see in the field. Three of my friends operate pay to hunt goose hunting pits. I have never hunted their pits but I do stop in to visit with them while scouting on the days season ends at 2 PM or after dark to BS and have a beer or two. They give me their empties and 75% are still 3 1/2. I have two 55-gallon drums of 3" and 3 1/2" just in case I want to load them. I used Tom Roster's lead loads for the 10 gauge, but I have never loaded a 3 1/2" 12 gauge.
I have two other friends that love to hunt geese. I normally don't hunt with them since they always have a bunch of people in the decoys. For late season both of them are still 3 1/2" fan boys and they do keep a kill tally for geese killed over their decoys. Normally that is between 1,000 and 2,000 dark geese.
Since the limit went to five a day for dark geese I've never killed less than 58 geese over my 14 day non-resident season. The best percentage I have done is 64 with 68 shots. The best I've done in a season is 67. I hunt almost exclusively with one friend. We take turns in the decoys so it's easy to keep track of percentages. I like my 3 1/2" BBB 12 gauge. They work great over the decoys and for the days when they don't want in. Mostly Fiocchi or Federal ordered from Rogers Sports spring sales for $149.00 a case with free shipping. They have not offered that in two years but I still have 2 1/2 case left. I am way too frugal to shoot Tungsten.
The sky blasters that shoot a couple of boxes of shells per goose tend like the cheapest they can find. That is normally Winchester Xperts out 2 3/4" or 3" of Scheels.
The 3 1/2" guns and ammo will be around for a long time. With a pump the 3 1/2" has the disadvantage of a longer stroke. With a semi-auto there is no disadvantage to having a 3 1/2 chamber even if you don't shoot 3 1/2".
It's still about choice. If you want a 30 Super Carry go for it. If you don't want a 30 Super Carry don't get one. If you want to use 3 1/2" that is your choice. To claim "I'd bet more than 90% of hunters who buy 3 1/2" 12 gauge steel shot ammo are either under 21 and/or not very good shooters looking for any advantage" is just as narrowminded as "a problem looking for a solution", you don't look smart.types
Last edited by M-Tecs; 02-21-2022 at 11:41 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
I in no way intended to insult you. I simply can not think of a single person I know over 21 who shoots 3 1/2" 12 gauge for anything on a regular basis.
Are they late season hunting when the geese come off the water with ice on their chests? We mostly hunt in December with temps (at times) well below zero. Lessers and snow geese don't require much and for those 3" number 2's get the job done. Late season not so much unless you break a wing or get a head or neck shot.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
M-Tecs, I'm not here to argue what my friends do. All I ever said was 3 1/2" 12 gauge is not nearly as popular as it was in the beginning. I never meant to imply that it was disappearing for good.
No you are telling everyone else what to do based on what your friend do. You made your thoughts 100% clear with this. "I'd bet more than 90% of hunters who buy 3 1/2" 12 gauge steel shot ammo are either under 21 and/or not very good shooters looking for any advantage."
How is that any different than knocking the 30 Super Carry? I much prefer to have a multitude of options. It might not have a role in any of my applications but it might be perfect for someone else application. I have zero use, need or want for a 300 BO. Other's do and it works great for them. Not my place to knock it simply because I don't have a use for it.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 02-22-2022 at 03:10 AM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Geeze, it was a poor choice of words. I'm sorry I did not articulate it better.
Us gun guys, we are hilariously combative for no good reason.
"Is all this REALLY necessary?"
It does seem like it took a nose dive in popularity. But that is often how a lot new cartridges go. Many manufacturers make guns chambered with it to start and then it slowly peters out. The cost of 3.5" 12ga sure did not help any either, especially these days. A lot of shops don't carry it or carry a very limited amount of 3.5" ammo.
Time for Round Two: 6.5 Creedmoor versus .260 Remington. Ready? Fight!
Remember: Ammo will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no ammo.
I'D just like to know when the H[eck] the four major U.S. primer producers plan to produce PRIMERS, again.
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind: and the fool become servant to the wise of heart. Proverbs 11:29
...Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matthew 25:40
Carpe SCOTCH!
The 30 super carry rabbit holed into long guns. I don't think I can conceal one of those on the belt...
The reloading gun shop here has CCI primers. There are plenty out there, but these were $115 per 1000. I asked an employee if their store would buy my Federal primers for $100 a 1000. He said no. Sure would have been nice to try out a Mossberg 940 for the price of a few packs of primers.
Posting Permissions
| BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
| BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
| BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
| C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
| HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
| PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
| LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
| GC | Gas Check |
Reply With Quote