Nice 00 buckshot load

[megasupermagnum]

I've been on a buckshot kick lately, and I found a load I wanted to share with everyone. This one is a standout not only because of its pattern, but also because it doesn't knock your teeth out. I've been trying a few different sizes, 000, 00, 1 buck, 2 buck, and F. In a number of different loads, 00 has been a standout size in 12 gauge in a shotcup, but not that great without. The following load looks mundane, but it flat out works. I've patterned this in a Mossberg 500 with 30" full choke barrel, same Mossberg 500 with 28" modified choke barrel, a Winchester 1897 with 30" full choke barrel, and a Mossberg 590 with 20" barrel with both Carlsons Skeet and Full choke. Full choke is providing the tightest patterns, but the skeet has really worked out well. In reality the bore of that 590 is about .734", and the choke .725", so it's really an Improved cylinder choke.

I do not have a picture of the Mossberg 500 patterns. I shot those on Monday and never thought to take pictures, plus there was some difference, more on that later. Today I shot the 1897 and 590. Weather is horrible, a sustained 27mph wind, with gusts. It was very tough to shoot, wind pushed patterns about 16" right at 50 yards. I was concerned the wind may effect patterns, but it does not seem to be the case.

The load is straight out of the Tom Roster manuals. It is listed in both the Buffered lead & bismuth, as well as the Advanced lead & bismuth. It varies in each manual, so I will list both exactly as they are. Also before anyone asks, in both manuals Tom Roster specifically states it is perfectly safe to use buckshot of an equal weight in place of lead shot. My 00 buckshot weighs right at 50gr per pellet, and I'm loading 10 pellets in stacks of 2. 492gr = 1 1/8oz

Buffered lead & bismuth manual
12ga 2 3/4" Federal Gold Medal
Federal 209A
29gr 800x
Federal 12S4
1 1/8 oz lead shot
PSB buffer
fold crimp

1390 fps
10,000 LUP

Advanced lead & bismuth manual
12ga 2 3/4" Federal Gold Medal
Federal 209a
27gr 800x
Federal 12S4
1 1/8 oz lead shot
PSB buffer
fold crimp

1370 fps
11,400 psi

First I loaded with 27gr 800x and shot that from the Mossberg 500 with 30" full choke barrel on Monday. Results were identical to what I got today. Today I backed off to 24gr. 800x is a great powder for reducing. I did not check, but I'm guessing at 24gr, velocity is in the 1250-1300 fps range. They are not light by any means, but the recoil is not unpleasant. I plan to continue to load these at 24gr. One last note about the buckshot. All of mine was cast of range scrap in a Sharpshooter mold, and water dropped into ice water. They are about .325" diameter, and test at 26 BHN. Hardness counts with shot.

The following picture is a shot from the 1897 with 30" full choke barrel at 50 yards. I fired 3 patterns with this, and all 3 are nearly cookie cutter. 100% are in a 30" circle. and 9/10 are inside a 20" circle. One of the three patterns put 10/10 inside a 20" circle.



Next I fired the Mossberg 590 with 20" barrel with skeet choke. I moved to 30 yards expecting a wider pattern. I was astounded to find that was not really the case. The first picture is at 30 yards, all 10 pellets are right about a 16" circle. The second pictures is one of the two shots I took at 50 yards. 10/10 are inside of a 30" circle. 8/10 are inside of a 20" circle, but one of those two was only 1" out. The second shot, not pictured did exactly the same, except one pellet was a flier that was out almost to the 30" circle ring. I only fired one shot with the full choke, not pictured, and it put 10/10 inside a 20" circle.






Also as an added bonus I'm fairly happy with the following load in 10 gauge. I think it can be better, I'm going to try trimming petals, plus different sizes. As it is, it already is one mean load. If you absolutely have to spank a deer or pig at 50-60 yards, then this is one way to do it. It's hard to argue with the workhorse that is the Ithaca mag-10. This one was fired with my 32" full choke barrel at 50 yards. 16/18 are inside of a 20" circle. That last two is only about 3" out. Due to the wind I hit high and right, but luckily all 18 still hit paper. This load is listed in the Tom Roster Advanced lead & bismuth manual. I used it verbatum, and with 18 pellets of 00 buck. I used a .0075" thick mylar wrap. Tom recommends .004" thick for extra volume. I did not cut the wad petals off, and found 00 buck stacks in tight 3's in the cup, then loose 3's without.

10ga 3 1/2" Remington PB hull
Federal 209a
38gr Bluedot
Remington SP10 + 2 1/2"x1 1/2" mylar wrap
2oz lead shot
PSB buffer
fold crimp

1190 fps
11,000 psi

[HWooldridge]

Bravo on your loads and patterns. I especially like the 10 ga results.

I had an old model 37 Winchester single shot 12 that liked buffered Super-X shells with single 0 buck. We killed several deer with it around 50 yds or even a bit farther, and they were all hit with multiple pellets. A lot of "experts" will tell you that 20-30 yds is the limit for any and all buckshot, but that isn't true.

[nhithaca]

Great info
But, I thought I heard that 800x was discontinued. Maybe I got it wrong. I did buy 8# when I heard this.

[6pt-sika]

Great info
But, I thought I heard that 800x was discontinued. Maybe I got it wrong. I did buy 8# when I heard this.

Only I’ve heard of being discontinued were PB , SR7625 , SR4759 and SR4756 . I’d sure like about 16 pounds of SR4756 and 8-16 pounds of SR7625 .

[megasupermagnum]

No, he is correct. 800x is now discontinued. Longshot is a decent powder, but it is no 800x. HS6 would be a more appropriate substitute for this, but I'm not aware of any data. I've been unable to make a Bluedot load this good with 10 pellet 00 buck. I have come up with a good 10 pellet 000 buck load with Bluedot, but I'm not as impressed with it as I am this 10 pellet 00 buck 800x load. For whatever reason, I can not get good results with 00 buck stacked in 3's in 12 gauge, I've been trying for years. I don't have any WAA12R wads, but something like that with a 12 pellet load might be the ticket with bluedot.

I have tried a whole bunch of different loads this week, and these two are the only ones I'm impressed by. I did come up with a 41 pellet F buck load for coyotes, but it is a wildcat, and I do not feel comfortable sharing it until I pressure test it. As I said, I've tried all those shot sizes, I've tried Bluedot, 800x, Unique, 700x, and blackpowder, with whatever wad combo's I could think of. There isn't a lot of rhyme or reason to buckshot. All I can say for sure is you need buffer if you want tight patterns, and the harder the shot, the better. Beyond that, I don't know. 00 stacked in 3's in 12 gauge is no good, but 00 stacked in 3's in 10 gauge works pretty good. 00 stacked in 2's in 16 gauge was no good, but I have an idea what went wrong there.

[megasupermagnum]

I was just reviewing this post, and I noticed the 10 gauge pattern looks better than it really is. It is because the paper extends in front of the target, giving the illusion of the paper being taller than it really is. To get a better idea, look at the very first picture, fired from the 1897. That paper is sized appropriately. Notice the 10 gauge paper has a crease at the true bottom. Don't get me wrong, the 10 gauge pattern is pretty good, but it is not as spectacular as the 12 gauge load is. Well it isn't as efficient, but it sure is devastating with 18 pellets.

Another thought occurred that there isn't a great way to quantify buckshot patterns like there are birdshot or slugs. I can tell you how many pellets of birdshot hit in a 30" circle, and you can compare it in your own testing. There's been decades of research done on how many pellets in a 30" circle work well on various birds. The same thing exists for turkeys with the 10" circle. No such standard exists for buckshot as far as I know. I would like to start my own standard and am open to ideas.

My initial thoughts are that a 30" circle is too big. Most any worthwhile buckshot pattern is going to be completely in a 30" circle other than the odd flier, making comparisons worthless. A 10" circle like the turkey standard doesn't seem that good to me for two reasons. #1 is the variability of buckshot patterns due to low pellet counts, as well as shooter error. You could draw a 10" circle in the middle of that 10 gauge pattern and only get 3 pellets in it. It would incorrectly make it look like a poor pattern. I'm currently leaning towards using a 20" circle, but with a twist. I think buckshot patterns really need multiple shots to mean anything. Statistically, buckshot doesn't have the pellet count to be a reliable indicator with a single shot. This is great practice with birdshot too, but you can get away without it. I'm currently thinking about 3 shots. What I'm undecided on is if I should do 3 shots on the same target, or should I do 3 separate targets and average them. All on one target is a lot easier, but requires precision shooting. The other is more work, but more reliably accurate.

[6pt-sika]

When I check buckshot I shoot at a 24x30 inch box . I’m as much intrested in the central POI vs POA as I am about how tight the group is . Since about everything I use does not have screw ins as the saying goes “it is what it is” . That being said I’ve killed a fair amount of deer with my handloaded and some homecast buckshot . Also with that being said my parameters are not as stringent as many , my patterns are fired at 25-30 yards and generally I don’t shoot further than that at brown cloven hooved rats . When I’m hunting 90% of the time I’m in a treestand with a shotgun and a rifle . Generally the shotgun has buck in the right barrel and a homecast slug in the left barrel . For whatever shotgun I’m carrying I keep pictures of how the buck patterned and where the three shot slug group centered in comparison to POA and usually I look at it while in the tree so I can slightly compensate if I get a shot .

[HWooldridge]

20” may be too big if the goal is to prove out a kill shot on deer or hogs - 15” circle might be more reasonable. Based on my personal observations, one buckshot is capable of killing but very unlikely in most circumstances. Three buckshot inside the circle is probably a reasonable minimum.

My great uncle lived his entire life on the farm and ate a lot of venison over the course of a year. He killed most of his deer with #1 buck because he felt it was the best combination of pellet count and energy. He could get 16 #1 @ .30 cal in a standard 2-3/4” shell vs. 9 #00 @ .33 cal. I don’t believe a single pellet hit with 00 or even 000 will yield markedly different results than a single #1. The individual ball has a bit more energy but two #1’s will trump one 00 (and makes another hole in the critter).

[6pt-sika]

20” may be too big if the goal is to prove out a kill shot on deer or hogs - 15” circle might be more reasonable. Based on my personal observations, one buckshot is capable of killing but very unlikely in most circumstances. Three buckshot inside the circle is probably a reasonable minimum.

My great uncle lived his entire life on the farm and ate a lot of venison over the course of a year. He killed most of his deer with #1 buck because he felt it was the best combination of pellet count and energy. He could get 16 #1 @ .30 cal in a standard 2-3/4” shell vs. 9 #00 @ .33 cal. I don’t believe a single pellet hit with 00 or even 000 will yield markedly different results than a single #1. The individual ball has a bit more energy but two #1’s will trump one 00 (and makes another hole in the critter).

By no means am I disagreeing with your conclusion . I have however killed deer with 10 gauge 2 7/8” loaded with every sized buck from #3 up to 00000 . All had multiple hits . In the 12 gauge I’ve used both and loaded and factory 000 , 00 , 0 and #1 with excellent results in the 16 gauge I’ve used Handloaded #1 and dropped them on the spot . This past season I used homecast .415” which equates into 000000 buck from one of my 8 gauge guns of the ten pellets in that shell 8 or 9 hit the deer took out both lungs the heart and the offside front shoulder . So it’s been my experience multiple hits work well and large pellets work well also . I’ve not had any with a single hit so I can’t comment on that . I suppose a lot can be said for the way I usually kill with buck . Being semi calm
And not being pushed by dogs or humans probably makes it easier for me .

[megasupermagnum]

I think you guys are missing the point. I need a standard which I can share with everybody. I need something that is statistically meaningful. Not everyone has huge stash of 24"x30" cardboard boxes. It will have to be a circle that can be drawn on anything. I suppose it could be a square or triangle, but that would just be goofy. The kill size of an animal is irrelevant to this. What matters is picking a standard, and sticking to it so I can figure out I need X pellets in X" circle to reliably put a number of pellets into whatever the animal is. Lets say I picked a 20" circle, and I figured out I need a minimum of 8 pellets in that circle to reliably put 2-3 pellets in the lungs of a deer. It does not matter that 20" is bigger than the deer. Using the same circle, I would need say 20 hits in a 20" circle to put 2-3 pellets into the lungs of a coyote.

15" is not an unreasonable suggestion, I just feel that at that point I may as well use a 10" circle the same as turkey. The only reason we went to a 10" for turkey is because nobody has the time to be counting 300 pellets in a 30" circle. We don't have that problem with buckshot. With a 30" circle, you could theoretically have a 100% pattern of 000 buck, but not adequate for hunting, so I think that is an issue. Somewhere in the 15" to 20" range should provide meaningful results. All that really matters is that we all use it so everything shared is comparable.

More important is how many shots are needed to be meaningful. With unlimited time and money, I'd say 10. I'm leaning towards 3 being a good number. Simply due to possible error, I'm leaning towards a standard of a 20" circle, shoot at 3 targets, and average them. Say I shoot 3 and get 7, 7, and 9 pellets on each. That would average out to 7.7 pellets.

[HWooldridge]

We record a lot of statistical data where I work and have a PhD consultant who calculates the required sample sizes. He has said 32 samples is the best minimum (more is OK), 8 is next and 5 is the lowest meaningful quantity. We tend to use 8 over most of the shop. So your 20” circle makes sense and 3 shots is probably sufficient to give you a good idea, especially if it’s a bad load, i.e., no sense continuing if only 2 pellets are in the circle but 5 shots would yield more confidence on a good load.

[jban]

My way of thinking, is to pick a size about what you are going to be shooting at. I like 15"x15" because that is about the vital area of a deer. I shoot 1 round and mark the holes, shoot another round, mark the holes with a different color sharpie, and do it a third time, with a different color. That way I can see if I have a consistent pattern. I am not saying 15"x15" is the only size. My coyote load I use a smaller target size.
This is also how I set my range on how far the load is good for. When I can't consistently get the number of pellets, I figure I need in the kill zone, as I move the target further back. I need to add, I am in no way an expert. But I do feel confident on what I shoot at.

[warren5421]

I like using 18” x 30” target with the top and botton cut on a 9" radius. I put a 2", 3", 4", and 5" radiused circle in the center of the target. I am just getting into loading buck, have 3 molds ordered but buying right now. Using 0, 00, and 0000 but no real testing as buying is to expensive. Been using FFFg GOEX, Swiss 1 1/2.

[megasupermagnum]

I like using 18” x 30” target with the top and botton cut on a 9" radius. I put a 2", 3", 4", and 5" radiused circle in the center of the target. I am just getting into loading buck, have 3 molds ordered but buying right now. Using 0, 00, and 0000 but no real testing as buying is to expensive. Been using FFFg GOEX, Swiss 1 1/2.

Thanks for the comment, but if you get deep into testing, you will find that your method is way too convoluted. You are definitely going to want to stick with a simple target no matter what you do.

As for my standard, I believe I have come up with an idea. In keeping with time tested shotgun patterning, I'm going to try and find what works best to match the existing 30" circle at 40 yards standard. What I intend to do is load a handful of a few different kinds of buckshot loads, and fire them at 40 yards from I'm thinking the best will be my Mossberg 500 with full choke, and Benelli Nova with IC choke. I will then evaluate the patterns and try to determine what size circle will provide the closest match to birdshot pattern percentages. By that I mean an un-buffered load of birdshot "should" do around 50% at 40 yards in a IC choke and 70% at 40 yards with a full choke. Buffer often tightens patterns 10%-20% or more. It will be a little touch and feel since buckshot does not react in the same way that birdshot does. Hopefully I will be able to come up with a good test.

[Hanzy4200]

Nice patterns! My favorite 00 buck wad is the MG42 from BPI. I am shooting a modified choke in a Benelli M4. I never shoot to 50 yards. I highly doubt mine would even pattern. Putting all the pellets in a 12" circle at 25 yards is good for me.

[Blood Trail]

One can easily get off in the weeds when testing buckshot. Like Magnum stated, keep it simple. All my long range buckshot hunting loads I pattern them on a sizeable board, cardboard box, etc. what I’m looking for is pattern density. I could give a rat’s behind where that pattern is hitting, as long as the pattern is tight. You can always adjust your dope to get the pattern where it needs to go.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[farmbif]

on a side note here, ive found appliance stores a great place to get large flat cardboard for targets

oh yeah
here's one or 2 of my 00 buck loads
9- 00 pellets, 25 grains universal, waa12 wad win 209 primer in a fliocchi 2 3/4 shell
or 9-00 pellets, 26 gr herco waa12f114 wad win 209 in a fiocchi 2 3/4

[DDRanch]

Interested in loading some 00 buckshot. Going to try 33.0gr Bluedot, F209A primer, 12S4 wad, Federal paper base wad hull with 10 #00 pellets. Will be using a PW 375 press.
Any tips would be appreciated.

[megasupermagnum]

Interested in loading some 00 buckshot. Going to try 33.0gr Bluedot, F209A primer, 12S4 wad, Federal paper base wad hull with 10 #00 pellets. Will be using a PW 375 press.
Any tips would be appreciated.

I do not have any paper basewad hulls at the moment. I did just try this in a Gold Medal hull, which has even more room, and it will not fit. There's no way you are getting 33gr bluedot, a 12s4, and 10 00 buck in there. 8 pellets would probably work, but then you are getting to be pretty light for bluedot. You might be able to trim the petals off, and do 9 in stacks of 3's. If you have any .090" plastic base, AKA one-piece hunting hulls, that is a better option. A load you can try I see listed in the Lyman shotshell 5th is listed below. I would try 12 pellets 00 buck, but 10 pellets in this load should be ok.

12ga Federal 2 3/4" plastic hunting, paper basewad
CCI 209M
33gr bluedot
Remington RP12 wad
1 3/8oz lead shot
#47 buffer
fold crimp

1224 fps
10,700 psi

[DDRanch]

Loaded up a few and a tight fit, with 10 "00" pellets all sits maybe 1/8" above wad but once crimped turns out a nice looking shell. Not sure if shot all stays round but this is for close in shooting. I'll try to post a pic later on.