My M1 Garand cast bullet experiment

[Jupiter7]

BruceB,

This is when you should insert your load at the bottom

Many, including myself have found it to be quite accurate, even in my well worn service grades.

[Ithaca Gunner]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

-low chamber pressure...

-low gas-port pressure...

-softer-than-issue bullet metal...

Exactly HOW do you envision these factors "damaging a Garand"?

Many, many of us have been using cast bullets with perfect safety and satisfaction in our Garands for years. "Safety", meaning safety both for the shooters AND the rifles, in the full knowledge that the rifle design has a few peculiarities which must be allowed-for in the ammunition.

If one decides NOT to use cast bullets in his Garand, that's well and good.... but he's missing-out on some very entertaining shooting (and interesting handloading, too.)

And as an added bonus, with cast loads, my Garand stacks the empties in a nice neat pile...Something it does not do when shooting jacketed bullets!

[ballistim]

And as an added bonus, with cast loads, my Garand stacks the empties in a nice neat pile...Something it does not do when shooting jacketed bullets!

I use the Schuster DCM adjustable gas plug on my Garands & have only used j reloads so far, but it works great at not only protecting the op rod but can be adjusted so that empties are tossed in the same place nearby, usually about 2:00 to 3:00. I also can adjust it to be single shot which is useful at times. Next up is to reload boolits from the NOE 311365 mold I recently bought, but casting and reloading for hunting season has gotten in the way so far. BTW just noticed the Schuster DCM plug is now shown as legal for Service Rifle (CMP #4-13-2-b) but not As-Issued per Midway product/technical information. I asked at the CMP maintenance class in August about it being legal and the instructor thought there shouldn't be any reason that it shouldn't be and that it may be made legal in the future. I highly recommend it!

[Firehand]

I know IMR4895 and H4895 are very close in burn rate, according to the charts I've seen H is slightly faster. I think I'm going to try 31.5 of H4895 and see if it cycles the action and gives comparable accuracy.

Fred, I started messing with cast in this rifle for several reasons:
Cost
Ease on shoulder(accident some years back)
Lighter load for the indoor range when can't get to the outdoor
Because I can

I promise, if I'd thought I'd mess the rifle up, I wouldn't have. I've found LOTS of information on cast in the Garand, so don't see any chance of damage long as I do my part.

And one of the things I should've tried sooner was the 200 grain bullet; does indeed give better accuracy. Mongrel alloy; got started casting for general practice and it's always worked well. For bolt rifles of various cartridges I've used the '150-180 grain bullet with 16.0 of 2400' load and had very good results.

[Ithaca Gunner]

You done some good shooting there, Firehand. I'm envious. I've been using the RCBS 30-180-FN in mine with 41gr of IMR 4831, but will try H-4350 because I have a lot of it. The throat in mine is all but gone and it still gives what I call reasonable accuracy at 100yds, 5-6" groups. If I discount the first shot, 3-4".

[mac266]

I came to this web site during my search for info on this very topic! I've been casting for about a decade and have long wanted to try it in my Garand (CMP "Special Grade"), but all the conventional wisdom at the range and on other boards has steered me away from it.

Now it seems I need to add a .30 caliber bullet mould to my arsenal. Thanks for the info, guys!

Has anyone found a load manual that lists loads for cast bullets in the .30-06? All of mine are for jacketed rounds.

[Baja_Traveler]

Been using the 311299 water dropped, lubed with Carnuba Red and 4895 for years with no ill-effect...



But the past several months have switched over to the 311395 when my NOE group buy arrived. I'm really liking the results using it - but I've been concentrating most of my testing using my Mosin Nagant right now. Last weekend I did my first long range shooting with it, and was routinely knocking down the 600 yard Rams on the silhouette range with it using stock iron sights. Next month I'll get the Garand out and see what it can do at ranges longer than 200 yards (I already know it's good 200 yards and closer from shooting the military silhouette matches with it).

[Firehand]

Was able to hit the range today and was able to set up the Chrony: with the Lee 200-grain bullet and 32.0 grains IMR4895 it averaged to 1750 feet per second; slower than I'd expected.

It'll consistently(not always, but mostly) fail to cycle the bolt far enough to pick up the next cartridge on the first round, but cycles completely after that.

Had several times over about sixty rounds that a cartridge rode high and wound up with the nose of the bullet catching on the receiver instead of going into the chamber; always on the left side when it happened. I'd only taken a couple of clips with me, so it's possible it's something about that one. And no, I did not thing to mark it somehow so I'd know which one; just occurred to me that that might be the problem afterward.

It was windy as bleep, so accuracy was not what it probably should be, but with HXP(Greek) and PS(Korean) brass, got nice groups(about 3" at 100 yards, need to actually measure). And the one set I loaded with H4895, well, I think I can forget that powder for this.

[Ithaca Gunner]

I came to this web site during my search for info on this very topic! I've been casting for about a decade and have long wanted to try it in my Garand (CMP "Special Grade"), but all the conventional wisdom at the range and on other boards has steered me away from it.

Now it seems I need to add a .30 caliber bullet mould to my arsenal. Thanks for the info, guys!

Has anyone found a load manual that lists loads for cast bullets in the .30-06? All of mine are for jacketed rounds.

The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 5th edition is currently the latest and has many loads listed for .30-06, but you won't find any specific for the M1. As far as I know, right here is the best and only information base for loading cast boolits for them.

[Ithaca Gunner]

Was able to hit the range today and was able to set up the Chrony: with the Lee 200-grain bullet and 32.0 grains IMR4895 it averaged to 1750 feet per second; slower than I'd expected.

It'll consistently(not always, but mostly) fail to cycle the bolt far enough to pick up the next cartridge on the first round, but cycles completely after that.

Had several times over about sixty rounds that a cartridge rode high and wound up with the nose of the bullet catching on the receiver instead of going into the chamber; always on the left side when it happened. I'd only taken a couple of clips with me, so it's possible it's something about that one. And no, I did not thing to mark it somehow so I'd know which one; just occurred to me that that might be the problem afterward.

It was windy as bleep, so accuracy was not what it probably should be, but with HXP(Greek) and PS(Korean) brass, got nice groups(about 3" at 100 yards, need to actually measure). And the one set I loaded with H4895, well, I think I can forget that powder for this.

Try a slower powder for your cast loads, (IMR 4831/4350). Start at around 40gr. and work up in .5gr. increments. Mine does it's best so far with 41gr. of IMR 4831 and the RCBS 30-180-FN, but it functions reliably with the Lyman 311299 also. I've been meaning to try approx. the same weight of H4350 as I have much more of it in my powder locker.

I remember reading somewhere to load M1 clips with the top round always on the left, that's the way I load them and I haven't had a failure to feed even when shooting the flat nose RCBS boolit in them.

[Firehand]

Especially with the components situation right now, don't really want to get another powder if I can help it, though may wind up doing so; I've read good things about those for this firearm.

As to the clip loading, now that you mention it I've heard that too; easy to find out if it makes a difference here. Also going to mark some clips, so if only happens with some of them I'll know which ones(same thing I do with magazines).

[Firehand]

Having done some more messing with this, here's what I've settled on:
The Lee 200-grain bullet, sized .311 and lubed with Lyman Black Powder Gold, pushed by 33.0 of IMR4895. Cycles the action reliably, quite accurate enough for a practice load, and shoots cleanly. Out of ~100 rounds using this lube/size I've found no traces of lead fouling in the gas tube or on the piston/rod, just soft powder/lube fouling.

I had been using Lee Liquid Alox for lube, but apparently it's just not cutting it for this use in this rifle; I'd get some fouling build-up on the piston face. So switched lube, and seems to have taken care of the problem.

No, it's not match-accurate; most of the time, neither am I. It's a easy-recoiling load that'll work nicely for general shooting. And the brass-catcher I put together has kept me from losing any brass during this past while, so overall I'm calling this a win.

Added: This rifle likes HXP and PS brass best of all I've tried so far.

[rromano158]

Hello all, I've posted this same message on different threads hoping to get the most knowledgeable info as possible.
I was able to finally get an M1 Garand in my collection. I am wanting to reload cast "boolits" for this particular rifle. I've reloaded for other 30-06 rifles (bolt action and pump action). I have a question about which mold to get. I am looking at the NOE molds 311332, 311365, 311299 or the 312299. Can anyone give me a recommendation for one or another? Would I have feeding issues with round nose cast "boolits (the 311299/312299) versus the spire points (311332/311365)? I planned on using either IMR4898 or H4898 starting at 30 grains and working up. Whatever advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated!

[Merick]

312299 and don't look back. On another cast bullet page where they post load data from match results the 311299 rules the roost. 312 snugs up the bore riding nose the way it should be.

[Ithaca Gunner]

You'll have no feeding problems with about any .30 mold. I use the RCBS 30-180-FN in mine, a big flat meplate boolit and it feeds fine. If you have a 311299 that would be the first one I would try.

[rromano158]

Okay, so I slugged my barrel today. It came out to .307, I've ordered the NOE 311299 mold. Should I resize to .309 or run it through the .311? I've got both sizing dies for my lubri-sizer.

[GooseGestapo]

FWIW;
I worked up a load for the Lee 200gr .309" RN.
I cast them from W/W air cooled with some 95/5 lead free solder added.
I tumble lube, then seat a Hornady gas check and lube with SPG TO .311" in a Lyman #450 sizer.

I load them in commercial cases sorted, (usually Federal) flaring the necks with a Lyman M die.

Load is 34.5gr H4895, chrono' 2,000fps. 8rds from the '43 Springfield with a no-name match grade barrel runs about 2" at 100yds. Bonus is that it only takes 2 clicks up to zero.

I do seat the bullets out to place base of gc even with base of neck, and crimp with Lee FCD.

They cycle the action like the fine machinery it is.

I worked up this load back in '12-13 when ANY jacketed bullets were unobtainable.

[Scharfschuetze]

Okay, so I slugged my barrel today. It came out to .307, I've ordered the NOE 311299 mold. Should I resize to .309 or run it through the .311? I've got both sizing dies for my lubri-sizer.

Try 10 rounds of each diameter and see what shoots best. My M1s all like cast bullets sized to .310," but those are my rifles, so let your rifle tell you its preference.

By the way, I use a non canister grade of 4895 that burns between 4895 and 4064 so I'm using 36 grains of it for proper function and good accuracy with either the 311334 or the 311299 Lyman designs.

Good luck!

[guicksylver]

I believe the pictures will tell what needs to be said...except the reason the 4th and 5th shots went out was because the target turned into a faded grey mass..(old eyes)

[rromano158]

Okay, I'm having some difficulty is understanding how most everybody else has lower FPS using H4895 than I am having. I worked up my loads using cast bullets from 311299 (NOE) mould, resized to .310, lubed and gas checked starting at 28 grains in 5 shot strings all the way up to 35 grains with and without .8 grains of polyfill. The boolits weighed in with lube and gas check at 208 grains. They all fired, but would not cycle the action until I got to the 35 grains. The 5 shots with the 35 grains cycled the action fine, ejecting the spent case and cycled the next round, but did not lock back or eject the clip. I was using a 5 shot clips, and had to manually eject it. Across my Caldwell Precision Ballistic Chronograph at 15 feet back at 28 grains I was getting an average of 1729 fps with polyfill, and average of 1799 without polyfill. At 35 grains with polyfill I got an average of 2052 fps (minimum 1952 maximum 2107). For some reason only two of the 5 shots of 35 grain loads without polyfill registered showing 2092 and 2132 fps.

I've loaded up more rounds using the regular 8 shot en-bloc clips with 36 grains to 38 grains all with about .4 grains of polyfill as it seems to "slightly" lower the fps.

Do my readings seem a bit high? Should I try a different powder? I have the latest Cast Bullet Handbook, and it is showing results for powders such as IMR-4227, IMR-4198 and Reloader 7, all with velocity fps' below 2000.

Suggestions welcome!