Trying Lee FCD in 45 auto

[Backcut]

Got my first 45, a Kahr P45. Strange choice maybe, but affordable (used) and made in the US and I like it. Shot great with the little box of S&B 230gr I got to try it out.

Ordered some MBC 230gr "softball" hi-tek coated bullets to try in it. They shot great in initial workups with 231 and True Blue.
I'm using a Redding regular carbide die set with taper crimp seater and I think the expander is similar to the Lyman M style.

I sat them to 1.200 to pass the plunk test. I struggled a bit with the taper crimp seater. First time doing a taper crimp with cast bullets. Had to screw the die way out to prevent the crimp starting too soon/too hard and scraping lead and coating off during the seating. But then if I set the crimp too far out, the rounds ended up too fat to want to plunk nicely in the chamber. OAL is fine but some of them would want to go in a little hard due to the girth. I could still push them in pretty easy by hand, but not ideal, and in testing I had to tap the slide forward a few times to chamber. All Winchester brass, and the OAL test dummy round plunked easy but when loading they got inconsistent, which I found strange. I mean the OAL stayed at 1.200 on the nose, but ease of plunking was inconsistent I believe due to diameter. The bullets measure .452 and the seated dummies I have left are .473 so that ought to have been ok. Next time I will take more careful measurements and write them down if any of them don't want to plunk easy.

So I've got a Lee FCD on order to at least try it out, they're cheap enough. I have read about how they're a band-aid for suboptimal loading practices earlier in the process, or that they can squeeze cast bullets down to jacketed size etc. Well, I'm going to give it a shot with before and after measurements, and report back. Let me know if you have any other advice, and thank you!

[gwpercle]

The Lee FCD is great for those who can't/don't want to learn how to seat and crimp boolits .
When dealing with soft coated boolits it is best to Seat the boolit in one operation and then crimp the boolit in a second seperate step . It keeps the coating from being scraped off as the crimp closes on the downward moving projectile .
Gary

[mdi]

The Lee FCD is great for those who can't/don't want to learn how to seat and crimp boolits .
When dealing with soft coated boolits it is best to Seat the boolit in one operation and then crimp the boolit in a second seperate step . It keeps the coating from being scraped off as the crimp closes on the downward moving projectile .
Gary

I agree! I'm not a Lee Hater but the FCD is a band aid for sloppy reloading (I have been reloading semi auto cartridges for about 35 years without the need to post crimp size anything) Try seating/crimping in two steps. But I understand some need 100% feeding (?), like in competition shooters, but I can't remember a FTF in any of my 5 caliber semi-auto handloads. I've been reloading for quite a while and still separate steps; seat all, then change dies or re-adjust die and deflare all (none of my semi-auto rounds need a "crimp"). Once I find the OAL that works with a specific bullet in my gun(s) they all plunk easily...

[tazman]

So I've got a Lee FCD on order to at least try it out, they're cheap enough. I have read about how they're a band-aid for suboptimal loading practices earlier in the process, or that they can squeeze cast bullets down to jacketed size etc. Well, I'm going to give it a shot with before and after measurements, and report back. Let me know if you have any other advice, and thank you!

I always seat and crimp in two separate steps. It saves a lot of problems. I also use the Lee FCD for the crimping step.
The only time mine reduces the diameter of the boolit is if it is several thousandths larger than standard.
I use 452 sized boolits for mine and have no problems.
Adjust the body of the FCD as the instructions show. Back off on the crimp and put one of your properly seated rounds in. After running it into the FCD, turn the crimp knob down until it makes contact with the rim of the case.
Load a couple of new rounds that have not been crimped and run them into the FCD. Continue to adjust the crimp knob until they fall into the chamber as needed.

Very easy to do.

I really have not experience the issues people say they have with the Lee FCD. I use it on all my handgun cartridges with no issues at all.
Many tests have confirmed that my FCD dies do NOT swage down my boolits.
It is possible that Lee may make some with undersize rings in them. I have not experienced this with 5 different ones that I use.

[DougGuy]

What you should do is send that barrel and have it throated, I get a lot of those, I have a CW45 and it wouldn't run the Hornady Critical Defense JHP loads, had a couple of failure to fire where the firing pin pushed the round more into the rifling instead of firing the round. Now mine gets Speer Gold Dot +P with the barrel throated it is super reliable and will feed anything that will cycle through the magazine.

[AlaskaMike]

I would love to see a discussion of the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die which doesn't include folks badmouthing those who use it.

All too often many of our friends here ridicule folks who bring up the Lee FCD, claiming that those who use it don't know what they're doing, that it's a bandaid for sloppy reloading practices, etc.

I'm not surprised to see that kind of mud slinging on other forums, but it's very disappointing to see it here.

[AlaskaMike]

I always seat and crimp in two separate steps. It saves a lot of problems. I also use the Lee FCD for the crimping step.
The only time mine reduces the diameter of the boolit is if it is several thousandths larger than standard.
I use 452 sized boolits for mine and have no problems.
Adjust the body of the FCD as the instructions show. Back off on the crimp and put one of your properly seated rounds in. After running it into the FCD, turn the crimp knob down until it makes contact with the rim of the case.
Load a couple of new rounds that have not been crimped and run them into the FCD. Continue to adjust the crimp knob until they fall into the chamber as needed.

Very easy to do.

I really have not experience the issues people say they have with the Lee FCD. I use it on all my handgun cartridges with no issues at all.
Many tests have confirmed that my FCD dies do NOT swage down my boolits.
It is possible that Lee may make some with undersize rings in them. I have not experienced this with 5 different ones that I use.

This has been my experience as well. I have Lee carbide FCDs for every semi auto caliber I own. I do think it's critical to adjust the die properly, according to Lee's instructions.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I would love to see a discussion of the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die which doesn't include folks badmouthing those who use it.

All too often many of our friends here ridicule folks who bring up the Lee FCD, claiming that those who use it don't know what they're doing, that it's a bandaid for sloppy reloading practices, etc.

I'm not surprised to see that kind of mud slinging on other forums, but it's very disappointing to see it here.

In .45 it's still a taper crimp die just with the added carbide ring at the bottom. It still requires set up and adjustment like any other crimp die. I'm not sure how this is a dumbed down version. I've used it to make many high quality rounds.

[DougGuy]

I would love to see a discussion of the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die which doesn't include folks badmouthing those who use it.

All too often many of our friends here ridicule folks who bring up the Lee FCD, claiming that those who use it don't know what they're doing, that it's a bandaid for sloppy reloading practices, etc.

I'm not surprised to see that kind of mud slinging on other forums, but it's very disappointing to see it here.

I won't bad mouth the die, but a lot of folks don't look hard enough at the details before making judgement. Fact is, the Lee FCD is intended for jacketed bullets, .451" in diameter which is pretty much THE industry standard diameter for factory made ammo. The die will NOT size down a .451 j-word.

Another thing, those carbide rings are not all created equal. Some are tighter than others! Which means finished results can and WILL vary quite a bit! So it's basically a crapshoot whether the FCD will work in *your* situation well, or jut so so, or not at all.

Since the die is made with a finite size at the carbide ring, it cannot be adjusted for use with larger cast boolits .452" in diameter like we on this forum use 99.89% of the time. If you load a .452" boolit that bulges the sides of the case beyond what will pass through the carbide ring, it WILL size the outside of the case. Usually this will in turn downsize the boolit in the case. This is where most of the negative comments come from.

So instead of reading what J.R. Doe experienced handloader writes on an internet forum, use a kinetic boolit puller and make a few loads, run them through the FCD and pull the boolits and MIC them with a micrometer. Not a caliper. Only after this test is done will YOU know if the FCD will work for you without creating an undersized boolit. And the next FCD you buy just may be a tiny bit tighter, or looser, and results will vary.

The one thing it DOES do that should be mentioned, is in cases where it does swage down a lead boolit, one must consider the springback in the brass case, and now there is MUCH LESS case neck tension than before the FCD was used. This could lead to boolit setback when the rounds are fed from the magazine, which would be a dangerous scenario in anybody's book.

[AlaskaMike]

I won't bad mouth the die, but a lot of folks don't look hard enough at the details before making judgement. Fact is, the Lee FCD is intended for jacketed bullets, .451" in diameter which is pretty much THE industry standard diameter for factory made ammo. The die will NOT size down a .451 j-word.

Another thing, those carbide rings are not all created equal. Some are tighter than others! Which means finished results can and WILL vary quite a bit! So it's basically a crapshoot whether the FCD will work in *your* situation well, or jut so so, or not at all.

Since the die is made with a finite size at the carbide ring, it cannot be adjusted for use with larger cast boolits .452" in diameter like we on this forum use 99.89% of the time. If you load a .452" boolit that bulges the sides of the case beyond what will pass through the carbide ring, it WILL size the outside of the case. Usually this will in turn downsize the boolit in the case. This is where most of the negative comments come from.

So instead of reading what J.R. Doe experienced handloader writes on an internet forum, use a kinetic boolit puller and make a few loads, run them through the FCD and pull the boolits and MIC them with a micrometer. Not a caliper. Only after this test is done will YOU know if the FCD will work for you without creating an undersized boolit. And the next FCD you buy just may be a tiny bit tighter, or looser, and results will vary.

The one thing it DOES do that should be mentioned, is in cases where it does swage down a lead boolit, one must consider the springback in the brass case, and now there is MUCH LESS case neck tension than before the FCD was used. This could lead to boolit setback when the rounds are fed from the magazine, which would be a dangerous scenario in anybody's book.

Doug, I agree with everything you say, and I appreciate your technical approach to why the carbide ring can in some circumstances cause issues.

Unfortunately the fact remains that there is an unfortunate amount of badmouthing of folks who use the die, and I would like to see that stop.

[megasupermagnum]

I agree! I'm not a Lee Hater but the FCD is a band aid for sloppy reloading (I have been reloading semi auto cartridges for about 35 years without the need to post crimp size anything) Try seating/crimping in two steps. But I understand some need 100% feeding (?), like in competition shooters, but I can't remember a FTF in any of my 5 caliber semi-auto handloads. I've been reloading for quite a while and still separate steps; seat all, then change dies or re-adjust die and deflare all (none of my semi-auto rounds need a "crimp"). Once I find the OAL that works with a specific bullet in my gun(s) they all plunk easily...

A band aid, really? You can get away with seating and crimping at the same time sometimes, but you are scraping the side of the bullet to do it. You would have to be a masochist to think resetting a seating die every single time to crimp is a good idea. I've done it plenty of times. I now also have a crimping die for every single caliber I own.

I don't understand why the Lee carbide crimp die causes such an uproar. It has a body sizer yes. It very rarely causes issues. The crimp part is just a sleeve that is adjusted with a knob. They are great to work with. Here is the secret though, the body sizing ring is easy to remove. It's nothing but a carbide ring that is pressed in the bottom and against a lip inside the die. I think they also use some kind of retaining compound to glue them in. All you do is find a punch just a tiny bit bigger than the ID of that ring. Let's say it is .474". Find a .480"ish punch. In this case you might even be able to use a 1/2" punch. Take the knob and crimp sleeve out, then heat the lower part of the die with something, put it in the oven, use a propane torch, whatever. Mount the die in your press, or in a vice with a 7/8" nut. Finally take that punch from the top, give it a couple good whacks with a hammer, and the ring pops right out. I've done this both with and without heat. It's easy, takes 5 minutes to find/make the right size punch, and 10 seconds to knock the ring out. The only thing to keep in mind is to make sure your punch is smaller than the lip the ring is seated against, or you will be beating on the die, not the ring.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Seating and then "taper" crimping the 45acp in two different steps cures a lot of the problems you are having.

The only thing I will say about the Lee carbide FCD, is that it's designed for jacketed bullet ammo, or cast bullet ammo that was assembled with cast bullets that are the same size as jacketed bullets (.451)
Good Luck.


edited: oops, it looks like Dougguy already mentioned what I said about the LEE carbide FCD.

[Electrod47]

I find the Lee pretty handy. I run my .45acp through several different guns including revolver. I use nothing but mixed brass sometimes up 10+ loadings. I don't trim brass and only reject splits etc. While changing from Revolver to Auto or vise versa I'd some times get a failure to chamber but wedged in good. So, out comes the dowel and leather mallet. I just use Lee FCD and my hassels went away. Same with 9MM.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Get a carbide LFCD. You'll like it.
It's not for seating-- it's for crimping. You'll get very uniform crimps.


DG

[DougGuy]

I'd some times get a failure to chamber but wedged in good. So, out comes the dowel and leather mallet. I just use Lee FCD and my hassels went away. Same with 9MM.

I'm willing to speculate that those infrequent hangups were the boolit portion interfering with the rifling, from too little throat in the barrel and not the OD of the shoulder interfering with the chamber walls.

[megasupermagnum]

I don't remember what my 45acp carbide FCD measured, but I was able to load .453" bullets, and the ring did not size down the bullet. It's very easy to tell. Load a round, pull the bullet, measure. Another way is load a round, crimp in the seating die, then push that into the FCD. If you can push it in, the sizing ring isn't hurting it. I knocked my ring out of my 45 acp FCD anyway. The lip the ring seats on has an ID of .525".

So for anyone that worried about it, all you need is a 1/2" punch, or anything about .480"-.524" in diameter. Put the die in your press, give it a couple good whacks with a hammer, done deal. Don't over think this.

[DougGuy]

I was able to load .453" bullets, and the ring did not size down the bullet.

So for anyone that worried about it, all you need is a 1/2" punch, or anything about .480"-.524" in diameter. Put the die in your press, give it a couple good whacks with a hammer, done deal. Don't over think this.

Ha! You could SELL that carbide ring and make somebody quite happy! As I mentioned earlier, those rings are not created equal. You got LUCKY and got one that would let a .453" go through it without swaging.

[Glwenzl]

Interesting thread. For me the LFC is just another good tool I have in my tool box. Mostly use it on jacketed bullets because I’m very new to lead/casting.

Sometimes I like to roll crimp into a canalure groove, but mostly prefer to taper crimp. Being an old seasoned reloader and mostly wildcats, I met my challenge with the 357 Sig. All I can say is the LFC die was a godsend for that guy!

But just very recently, I purchased a LFC for my 32-20. I load for a .308” 32-20 contender, but this was for my .312” 32-20 that I had expanded using my NOE expander. Lost neck tension. The Mrs was hollering at me so I put things in a safe condition to leave and haven’t made it back. I now have some additional things to consider when I get back down there.

[megasupermagnum]

The FCD for the 32-20 is a collet crimp die. Completely different, it has nothing at all in common with the carbide crimp die. They are superior, but can't do taper crimps.

[charlie b]

I must have gotten lucky as well. My FCD die carbide ring does not change the case at all when I am loading cast bullets sized .452. And it does a really nice taper crimp when set properly.

The OP is having a different problem due to trying to seat and taper crimp in one step. I can get away with a roll crimp while seating, but, not taper crimp.