Minie Ball Noob Question

[Super Sneaky Steve]

So I've got a .50 cal CVA inline and I wanted to try some Lee 360gr Minie's. My bore slugged to .501. These balls are dropping at .503 and the best I can do with a Lee sizing die is reduce to .501.

Since I'm not going to war I don't need to fire 100 rounds without cleaning. For best accuracy should I try to stuff the .503's in there or should I size to .501 or should I look for a custom .500 sizing die?

Also, should the whole bullet engage the rifling or just the lower half by the skirt? Just wondering.

Thanks in advance for helping this minie noob out.

[brewer12345]

Standard advice is to size 1 to 2 thousandths under bore size.

[Edward]

If your minie balls are pure it is the skirt that seals engraves rifling , stuffing should not be a problem (pure) is soft and expands upon firing . The only thing needed is not overdoing the powder charge and screwing up the skirt as it can be fragile . If your not casting you should as QC is not consistent with store bought (BHN varies) /Ed

[gunther]

A friend has a .52 flintlock, with a very slow twist. He has used the Lyman 533476 minie; a very old and hard to find mold, for years. He rolls the pure lead slugs between two steel plates until they will start in the muzzle. He hasn't lost a deer yet. From what he has told me, they all dropped in their tracks.

[Tar Heel]

As mentioned above, a PURE LEAD Minié ball should be about .002" under bore size so that it will properly expand upon firing. Your powder charge of black powder should be regulated to accomplish this expansion of the skirt to seize the rifling and seal the barrel. Black Powder has the correct pressure/time curve to accomplish this expansion of the skirt. Black Powder substitute propellants may not and have generally performed poorly with Minié bullets.

Any alloy but pure lead may result in undesirable performance of the bullet both in and out of the barrel. Your choice of lubricant will play a crucial role as well. It will not be to keep the fouling soft, as in martial arms, but to actually lubricate during barrel transition of the ball. For simplicity, I would use a commercial lubricant like Wonder Lube since it smells so nice too.

Whatever you choose to do regarding ball, powder, and propellant, I hope you have a grand time with this.

Make smoke!

[Maven]

I like the above advice, but am concerned that an undersized Minie will move off the powder charge, which isn't a good thing.

[mooman76]

I tried them in my CVA inline years back. Basically same sizing as yours. I didn't have a sizer so I loaded them as is. I had to pound them in just like the maxies. Accuracy wasn't bad but not great either. Something like 4" at 100y so good enough for deer. Since I had to pound them in, I figured I might as well be using the REALs. You didn't say what you needed them for so I am guessing deer. I don't know why Lee makes the 50 minies that size because it is too big. The 54 and 58 minies are smaller than bore size.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I tried them in my CVA inline years back. Basically same sizing as yours. I didn't have a sizer so I loaded them as is. I had to pound them in just like the maxies. Accuracy wasn't bad but not great either. Something like 4" at 100y so good enough for deer. Since I had to pound them in, I figured I might as well be using the REALs. You didn't say what you needed them for so I am guessing deer. I don't know why Lee makes the 50 minies that size because it is too big. The 54 and 58 minies are smaller than bore size.

I have a 320 REAL mold too. I've always shot the 250s and they do OK but I heard the faster twist barrels like longer boolits. I would like to hunt with it, but for now it's just my way of shooting without using up my dwindling supply of primers. I'm using 99.9% pure lead and home made black. I'll size with what I have until I can find a .499 or .500 sizing die.

[carbine]

Maven
Been shooting .58 minies for 40 years. Never had one move off the powder in almost 100,000 shots

[Tar Heel]

I like the above advice, but am concerned that an undersized Minie will move off the powder charge, which isn't a good thing.

So were the English in 1853 with the adoption of the Minié and the Metford-Pritchett bullets used in the early rifled muskets. Extensive testing was performed and it was determined that the undersized ball (naked or paper wrapped) remained in place whilst soldiers were run, maneuvered, jumped, rolled, dropped, and tussled.

An excellent book about the size of ball, type of ball (bullet), and eventually wrapping of ball into cartridges which could be fired all day without fouling up the bore can be found in an EXCELLENT book entitled The English Cartridge by Brett Gibbons. The ISBN is 978-8-645-98897-5

https://www.papercartridges.com/books.html

[bedbugbilly]

SSS - Unfortunately a .500 push through die doesn't seem to be a standard. However . . if you feel theneed to size them down for your bore = the rolling between two steel plates is a good suggestion - roll them individually and then check them to your bore.

Another suggestion . . . if you can find a machinist who can do it - would be to have a hole drilled land readied to .500 in a . . . say . . . a piece of 1/2" thick piece of maybe 3 X 3 steel plate. Have the side you push from counter sunk slightly so an oversize minie can be centered and then push/tap them through. Personally I would;d go nose first and make a wood dowel to fit the hollow base profile to gently tap them through. Or . . . perhaps get a Lee push through die and have it reamed to .500 by a machinist.

A soft lead hollow base that is .001 or so oversize may be an issue depending upon the crown of your muzzle and interference fit - do you really want to be having to carry a mallet to get it started when hunting - if a short starter won't give you enough oomph to get it started and in?? Only trial and error will tell you though.

I have a Lyman 50 caliber Trade Rifle that I am setting up and working on for target and doing range plinking. I have a number of hollow base designs that will bow used as well as solid base and RB and at some point, I'll be trying paper patched with it as well. Not hunting with it but strictly a fun gun to experiment with. In essence you hollow base is basically going to be a bore rider with the base expanded upon firing to grip the rifling. I would see how "as cast" works and if it is too much of a pain, then try and size to .500" and try. I say that if you can get someone to drill and ream a plate - the reason for the final reaming is to make sure the hole you are pushing them through is concentric.

Everybody does it different. When I wass shooting N-SSA years ago, almost all fo the guys I shot with, including myself, sized the monies to .002 undersize. Bear in mind we were shooting rifled muskets with typical shallow 3 groove military rifling. Plus, the .002 undersize allowed you to keep shooting a number of quick shots during a relay to clear the target board as a team. All we did back then was smear Crisco into the hollow base of the bullet - no lube in the side grooves. I would imagine that today's N-SSA is much more sophisticated and a lot of folks really get anal over it. The lubed base allowed sufficient lube to keep fouling soft and even in hot weather and a hot barrel, there never was an issue with the lube migrating into the powder because we were getting 2 to 3 shots off a minute.

As already stated, too much propellent and you can "blow" the skirt of a hollow base so work your load up and don't over charge it - your target will tell you.

.001 to .003 doesn't sound like much but you can't put a 6 inch ball in a 4 inch hole - all depends on your barrel crown and how easy it is to get a slightly oversized hollow base started in your bore. Soft lead is soft lead. I use it a lot in BP cartridges and with the right nose profile and the wrong seater stem - it's pretty easy to deform the nose when seating with a .011 to .002 neck tension - so yea, you may be able to get your cast hollow bases started in the bore, but be aware that depending upon how easy they seat on the charge and go down the barrel may make a difference in if you are deforming the nose. All little things to look out for.

Good luck and you'll get it figured out!

[ihunts2much]

Use them oversize for hunting. You DO NOT want it moving off the powder while walking, sitting, waiting etc.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Just to follow up. I got a chance to shoot the .501 boolits. I shot five in a row and they all went down smooth. No ball starter needed. I then went on to shoot a bunch of other things including some plastic power belts. Going back to the minie afterward was hard, but so was everything else. My advise is to stay away from plastic!