Data Request

[BunkTheory]

In the state of michigan i cannot hunt with a 38 special, or a 38-44 HD that is essentially a modern "standard book 357 magnum loading".

BUT i can legally hunt with a black powder revolver using a 44 caliber round ball.


IS anyone willing to share data results of hunting with either option over the decades? Wether its a "i loaded this here 160 swc to 1000fps in my L frame..." or "put a picket ball through a doe at 10 yards with my 1860"

[megasupermagnum]

This is straight from the Michigan DNR hunting book for legal handguns in the deer "limited zone." There appears to be zero restriction in the north zone, other than no 22 caliber or smaller rimfires.

" A conventional (smokeless powder) handgun must be .35-caliber or larger and loaded with straight-walled cartridges and may be single- or multiple-shot but cannot exceed a maximum capacity of nine rounds in the barrel and magazine combined. "

You can use a 38 special or 38-44 handgun in all of Michigan during your firearms season if you wish.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
If you are in one of those restricted zones and an 1860 is your only option...
Is this 1860 a quality modern reproduction ?
If so (and a Ruger Old Army would be better) I would not hesitate to load a RB.
#1 this is a .452+ RB and have been well twapping all sorts of big critters for 160 years.
#2 Any 180-200 grain FN soft cast sized correctly will aslo get the job done with better penetration.
#3 Under 20 yards should be a clear through chest penetration.

So get to practicing and enjoy using your muzzleloader revolver.

[gunther]

A buddy got several deer right out his back door with 4.0 grains of Red Dot and a Lyman 358477. 6 inch Highway patrolman, 38 special cases.
A trotting deer at 20 feet will not go far with an Old Army .457 round ball over 43 grains of GOI 3f. All the cylinder would hold. 1050fps; found the flattened ball under the skin on the far side of the chest cavity. He made it 50 feet before he fell.

[BunkTheory]

This is straight from the Michigan DNR hunting book for legal handguns in the deer "limited zone." There appears to be zero restriction in the north zone, other than no 22 caliber or smaller rimfires.

" A conventional (smokeless powder) handgun must be .35-caliber or larger and loaded with straight-walled cartridges and may be single- or multiple-shot but cannot exceed a maximum capacity of nine rounds in the barrel and magazine combined. "

You can use a 38 special or 38-44 handgun in all of Michigan during your firearms season if you wish.

you forgot the case length... the shortest and thinnest is the .357 magnum, but i can hunt with a percussion revolver but not a 38 HD

[megasupermagnum]

you forgot the case length... the shortest and thinnest is the .357 magnum, but i can hunt with a percussion revolver but not a 38 HD

That quote is the entirety of the handgun requirements for Michigan according to their book. There is no case length requirement. The only requirement for case length I see is for straight wall rifles.

I'm not saying to break the law, but the way Michigan has it in the book, you are completely legal to use 38 special in a handgun. It appears this must have changed in 2019, when air rifles and pistols were allowed. The only requirement for an air pistol or rifle is "A .35-caliber or larger air rifle or pistol charged only from an external, highcompression power source" A 38 special handgun is often more powerful than a 35 caliber air rifle.

If I were you, I'd use a 38 special, or whatever you felt like, and let it fly. 44 cap and ball would be good too.

[Duckiller]

Why don't you go to Mich DNR and ask them if you can use a 38 SP? Get the name of who ever gives you an answer and do what he or she says.

[sharps4590]

Why don't you go to Mich DNR and ask them if you can use a 38 SP? Get the name of who ever gives you an answer and do what he or she says.

What a foreign concept.....

[ShooterAZ]

Please keep things civil here guys.

[Lonegun1894]

Why don't you go to Mich DNR and ask them if you can use a 38 SP? Get the name of who ever gives you an answer and do what he or she says.

I would add do it by email, and is exactly what I have done in the past here to get clarifications about Texas regs. Now, I have our local game wardens phone number, and would honestly prefer to get my answer that way, but I go the long way and do it by email just because that way I have it in writing.

As to using either weapon, I have used a 4" .357 loaded with .38SPL loaded with a 158gr SWC to take plenty of hogs, so would have no qualms using the same load for deer at short range. Now I prefer getting in close, so when I say close range I'm saying most of my shots with any weapon are usually inside of 25 yards, and often inside of 25 feet, so I'm not suggesting flinging these at deer out of a revolver at 200 yards or something long range. I have also taken a handful of hogs with an 1858 Remington .44 copy I used to have years ago, and used 40grs FFFg and a RB. Worked just fine at short ranges too.

[Orchard6]

The case length requirement only pertains to rifles, 38-44 loads should work just fine out of a pistol in any part of Michigan.

[BunkTheory]

The case length requirement only pertains to rifles, 38-44 loads should work just fine out of a pistol in any part of Michigan.

Unfortunately the DNR officers in MY jurisdiction disagree with you, because they can open the yearly guide up and show you that page about the "rifle" pistol rule needing to be .357 minimum they can and will get you a fancy ticket and court appearance. And last time i checked the judge always agrees with the DNR officer who files the ticket unless there was some sort of agregious mistep of the law.
Like say you get a ticket forspear fishing, when they see you standing on your front lawn of 50 acres of grass holding a "fishing spear"

[Wolfer]

I’ve killed 2 deer with my 58 Remington. The Lee 452 200 RF cast of pure lead. All the FFFG I could get in the cylinder. As I recall velocity was about 700 FPS. One boolit was recovered and was undamaged enough that it probably be shot again even after clipping the back bone and cutting a six inch groove in the shoulder blade before lodging in the front leg about the knee. Shooting straight down.
The surprising thing for me was the distance traveled after the shot was about the same as my 45 colt. Where you put it means more than what you put it there with.

[Orchard6]

Unfortunately the DNR officers in MY jurisdiction disagree with you, because they can open the yearly guide up and show you that page about the "rifle" pistol rule needing to be .357 minimum they can and will get you a fancy ticket and court appearance. And last time i checked the judge always agrees with the DNR officer who files the ticket unless there was some sort of agregious mistep of the law.
Like say you get a ticket forspear fishing, when they see you standing on your front lawn of 50 acres of grass holding a "fishing spear"

Do you know this for certain or is this a rumor? Because it looks pretty plain in the rule book that the cartridge case length only comes into play in a rifle. Just like with police officers, DNR officers don’t know every single law that is written pertaining to every possible situation out there. I’d show your local officer the book and how it’s written. I bet IF you got a ticket you could fight and win unless there are other laws written saying that there is a minimum case length requirement for pistols.

[garandsrus]

The 35 Caliber is a diameter, not a specific cartridge. A 38 Special is a 35 caliber so it should be legal in a handgun. However, it would not be legal in a rifle in Zone 3 even though it would be going several hundred fps faster in a rifle.

[Tar Heel]

I would quit hunting in Michigan altogether.

Your answer is in print, in the regulations book. If the Game Wardens or other LEO's disagree with the printed and published regulations, a courtroom is a great place to set them straight. Whatever.

[gumbo333]

Seems like an email to the St DNR office to clarify the rules would be pretty easy to do. Get your answer from the top in black and white. Email a copy of the response to the local DNR officer. Doesn't seem all that complicated. Or just do it your own way.

[BunkTheory]

The state email just agrees with what the dnr officers tell me on the hoof.

[johnsonian09]

My buntline pietta 58 rem puts johnston and dow bullets right about 1200 fps with 45 grains of t777. A low end .357mag load.
On a regular rem this load is going just hits 1000fps

Your .44 cap and balls were the most powerful pistols available until the 357 magnum came about. Walker, dragoon, rem nma. Can all take more then 40 grains in the chamber. I choose a rem just because I like a top strap gun vs a open top.

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