oldendays

[357maximum]

I use real BP and I clean my frontstuffers in the tub with an ice cream bucket of hot water then use moosemilk to finish up. I do not use anyyellow stinky lubes either so it works out well,,,but i wonder...........

What I want to know is what did the fellas that did not have a hot water source do to clean their then state of the art fowlers/longtoms/kentuckies and such have for a cleaning regimine in the bush or on the battlefield?

[45 2.1]

I use real BP and I clean my frontstuffers in the tub with an ice cream bucket of hot water then use moosemilk to finish up. I do not use anyyellow stinky lubes either so it works out well,,,but i wonder...........

What I want to know is what did the fellas that did not have a hot water source do to clean their then state of the art fowlers/longtoms/kentuckies and such have for a cleaning regimine in the bush or on the battlefield?

Go to the Dixie Gunworks site and look for "worms", "tow" and "Tompions" (sp). You'll get a good idea of how little they had to work with.

[northmn]

It was mentioned that D. Boone would swab his rifle bewteen shots. Likely if time permitted he ran tow throught the bore and cleaned it before loading. A rifle fired once is not all that dirty and cleans fairly easily. I have often thought that the tallow patch lube was as much for greasing the bore for protection as for shooting. In the older days a load stayed in the weapon until fired and they did not shoot as much as we do. Many originals will still have a load in them and one has to be careful when buying them. Another thought is that barrels were commonly "freshed" out. Again I suspect from corrosion and not from shooting as it takes a lot to shootout a ML barrel.

Northmn

[StrawHat]

First, with the exception of target shooters, they never thought of cleaning their rifles the way we do today. The average hunter would jsut run a patch ofr two down the bore and finish it with a tow soaked in tallow. Just enought to caot the bore.

I first read about this in Muzzle Blasts and believe it was authored by Vickery. Anyway, I knew it could not be so and went out of my way to prove it wrong. Many years later I still find it a good way to keep a shooting rifle going strong. This is probably not a good way to store a rifle but for one that you use a couple of times a month it works suprisingly well.

Ross Seyfried also did an article on this subject in some magazine.

[boommer]

Vinegar and water, Alcohol water. Windshield washer solvent works great on those frosty days and warm days too! It 'nice to have hot water but not necessary.

[waksupi]

I have found that cold water cleaning is more effective than hot water. I don't use soap. Hot water seems to set the fouling harder when you clean with it. If you want to use hot water to aid in drying, clean the bore with cold first, and follow with a hot water rinse.
I don't use the hot water at all any more. Once I have used the cold, until water is running clear, I set the gun upside down for a couple minutes to drain, then use pieces of paper towel to swab the bore dry. There may be some grey showing on the towel yet, but the firearm will not rust because of this.
The paper towel is more efficient than a cloth patch for drying the bore, as it has a better absorption rate.

[357maximum]

I have found that cold water cleaning is more effective than hot water. I don't use soap. Hot water seems to set the fouling harder when you clean with it. If you want to use hot water to aid in drying, clean the bore with cold first, and follow with a hot water rinse.
I don't use the hot water at all any more. Once I have used the cold, until water is running clear, I set the gun upside down for a couple minutes to drain, then use pieces of paper towel to swab the bore dry. There may be some grey showing on the towel yet, but the firearm will not rust because of this.
The paper towel is more efficient than a cloth patch for drying the bore, as it has a better absorption rate.

I will try that and see, I have always used HOOOOTTTT water...thanks

Basically I just wanted to know how "THEY" did it.


Now I just want to know where BOONE and Crocket purchased windshield washer solvent ,...and why

[boommer]

windshield solvent,Just a way of cleaning on those cold butt days on the range when other solutions freeze up.
The gray waksupi is talking about is probably contaminated wax from the lube and lead residue wont hurt any thing but IT,S NOT CLEAN and would NOT store it away for any long length of time.
Now as far as Boone and Crocket there guns were a tool not how some people want to romanticize their firearms if we could actually see their working guns they would be in tuff working order I bet!

[oldhickory]

According to the book, "Gettysburg, Culps Hill and Cemetary Ridge" by Harry Pfanz, Soldiers in battle often used anything they could get their hands on to clean their muskets as best they could. I remember reading of a unit retiring from battle to clean muskets that were too fouled to load anymore, cutting patches out of their shirt tails and using sweat and urine for solvent, (but not precious water from canteens).

I've cleaned P53 Enfields in the field using cold water and patches ran down the bore with the knurreled head of the ram rod, Springfields required some sort of jag or worm to be placed on the threaded end. Squads always had hickory rods with a jag end for serious cleaning, but field cleaning was done with the ram rods and various tools to fit it with what ever patches were available.

There was also ammunition known as the Williams cleaner bullet, it was a minnie with a zink washer attached to the bottom (via a stem) to scrape fouling from the bore. I have no idea how effective these may have been. Cannon were cleaned using buckets of cold water and sponge rammers until both gun and sponge were clean and dry, (one sponge for water, another for drying).

After any major battle the Quartermaster Corps and Provost guard were responsible for clean up and recovery of gov't property abandon on the field. Tens of thousands of abandon muskets at Gettysburg had to be found, checked for loads and cleaned, then reissued. This process can be read about in some detail in Greg Cocco's book, "Gettysburg, A Strange And Blighted Land", (you'll need a strong stomach, as it deals a good bit with the removal and internment of the dead, treating the wounded, and the general stench of a July battlefield).

[357maximum]

Hickory's account sure makes a guy appreciate ballistol and hot running water.

A battlefield in July...that cannot be very pleasant now...ewwwwwwwwwww that smellllllllll

[waksupi]

Boommer, I don't believe I have wax in the bore, as I never put wax IN the bore. It is just some left over powder residue. Once the corrosive salts are neutralized by the water, they do no harm.

[bobk]

On the subject of cleaning, sort of, I have read that it is inadvisable to leave a ML loaded for long periods of time. A couple of weeks ago I remembered that I had loaded my 12 SxS a long time ago, maybe ten years, and hadn't fired it. Now, I had taken two pieces of red boiler gasket rubber and put them over the nipples, and lowered the hammers. I decided to see if it would fire at all, and clean it afterward. I went outside, put two caps on, and fired in a safe direction. Both barrels fired, and the recoil felt normal. I half expected to see real rust in the chamber area, but the bores were shiny and smooth all the way to the breech. I cleaned it, and put it away.

I don't live in a particularly low humidity area, either. This unintended "experiment" used regular 2F GOEX. How this might have turned out with 777, Pyrodex, or whatever, I have no idea. But as the oldtimers said, "Keep your powder dry!" If you do, it doesn't seem to hurt anything.

Here's a question, though. Does hot water relly work any better than cold water?
Bob K

[mooman76]

It doesn't hurt to leave a ML loaded. I wouldn't advise doing it but the powder doesn't become corrosive until fired. I don't like leaving them loaded because I am to forgetful and it would be like me to stare it that way for years.
There was someone here that said he was taught by an old timer to clean with cold water first and then finish with hot so it dries quick or something to that affect! I don't do either myself usually unless I get a hair. I just clean with a water based cleaner, than dry good and lightly oil.

[northmn]

I am with Waksupi and quit using hot water. It seems to cause more rusting. Now I use anti-freeze as in Prestone. Paul Matthews recommended the stuff in his cartridge gun books and it works. As to leaving the guns loaded, that is a debate in itself. Last hunting season I would swab the bores with clean patches until I could see no oil and leave them loaded in the garage with a toothpick in the vent for the flinters. Experimenting with them I found they fired after a weeks carry. When I used to hunt with a percussion double I found that if you fired one barrel and loaded quick on the dirty barrel that it would likely misfire the next time it was used unless you pulled the nipple and put a little 4f in as a primer. The BP does draw humidity. Same for flashing off a cleaning charge in a flinter. Thats why I just swab the heck out of them.

Northmn

[Charlie Sometimes]

I've always used HOT, soapy water in a bucket.
Swab until the water turns completely black, then dump it out and rinse with hot water.
Let the barrel sit for a few minutes, to dry, then run a patch with alcohol on it through the barrel, sit a minute, then swab with a geased patch to coat the inside of the bore.
I use natural lubes- bore butter, crisco, etc. and have never had a barrel rust.
I think this is a seasoning process like you would find on a good iron skillet- it helps protect the bore and seals it from rust.
It also makes for a smoother bore that doesn't need cleaning as often bewteen strings of shots.

[rick/pa]

Cold water works well for cleaning, all you need to do is dissolve the corrosive salts left behind from the combustion of black powder. It also doesn't clean out all the oil in the pores of the bore as does hot soapy water. It does no good to season the bore after cleaning if you've already cleaned all the oil out of it by using hot soapy water in the first place. For many years all I've used is cool tap water to clean, then dried the bore, oiled with Ballistol, and then greased the bore with RIG for long term storage. I started shooting ML's in 1962 while in high school and started building my own in 1975. If hot soapy water works for you and you like it by all means continue with it, there are no hard and fast rules that say you have to clean just one way. This is just what works for me after trying both methods.

[357maximum]

* *this is not meant to sound sarcastic so do not take it as such**

Could someone please explain to me how todays modern steels are "seasoned" ??


If steel could be "seasoned" how would you ever get a mould clean of oil trapped inside the metal? I know they come clean of the storage oil...so please splain it to me if you will...thanks

Michael

[waksupi]

Modern steel does not season. The old iron barrels would, to a certain extent. What people think is seasoning, is a coat of beeswax that is part of the lube, that they aren't getting out of the barrel.

[357maximum]

Thats what I was thinking...personally my bp guns are not "CLEAN" until a 20 stroke ticking patch comes out with nothing on it. I then put one moist ballistol patch down the bore give her a few strokes and then move to the exterior, then store in an open rack where I can see "things". I will get a hint of grey on the first dry patch the next time I prepare to shoot, but that has to be a ballistol/metal thing of sorts.


I have no use for borebutter, and I find the propaganda it comes with insulting...but that is just me being me.

[boommer]

metal is porous and oils will seep in, especially under pressure. The harder the steel , the less porous Try welding steel that's been oil or fuel soaked for sometime just washing it with a solvent and see what your weld looks like compared to grinding the surface. It's just not oxidation cleaning of the metals,but taking the contaminants from the surface. I've welded enough on dump trailers were they used Diesel fuel to keep loads from freezing the floor and sides in the winter plus other oily pieces. Oils seep though all metal to some extent so seasoned barrels are possible.