40 s&w to 44 boolits?

[sav300]

Hi Folks,My idea is to swage 40 s&w cases without cores then pour pure lead into them with a dipper and then weigh them.Then adjust weight by scrapping off excess.I know its a lot of stuffing around.
Hey it`s learning and fun.
Lionel

Forget to say it is for a.444 marlin.

[kawalekm]

Doing it that way will give you about a 270 grain bullet. I also tried something like that and was not so impressed with the results. I dipped cases into molten lead, then set them aside to solidify. I swaged them after cooling back to room temperature. The problem is that you get such high weight variation trying to fill the case. I got much better results by first casting a .40 caliber truncated cone in pure lead, dropping that into a case, then swagging.

Bullets came out very consitant that way.
Michael

[kawalekm]

After giving this idea more thought, I realized that what you are suggesting is not possible by swaging. In swaging, the diameter of the bullet is being bumped UP. A typical .40 S&W case mikes at .424" to .425", several thousands less than the .429"-.430" needed for the .444 barrel. In swaging, the lead core pushes the jacket outwards, always enlarging the diameter. Without a fluid core, there's nothing to push the jacket walls outwards. An empty jacket (or a case) can be drawn to a smaller diameter, but cannot be swaged to a larger diameter. To swage the case up to .429 you have to start with the lead core already in place.
Michael

[MIBULLETS]

If you don't swage the core first before putting the bullet into the point forming die you will probably end up with a loose core as well as being under sized as kawakekm said. Lead will actually shrink a little as it cools.

[sav300]

Kawalekm,Thats what I would like to make.With my reloading press and swage gear I cannot reform the 40s&w cases to the size and shape you have pictured.

MIBULLETS,You are right.

Gentlemen,thank you.
Lionel

[sav300]

Kawalekm,The .40 truncated cone,is it a Lee .40/170?And how do you size-swage the 40s&w brass to remove the groove?If not ,a lee should work.
Thanks
Lionel

[acemedic13]

That is a sweet looking bullet kawalekm!! I am really interested in swaging but, I know nothing about it. I have read and talked, but yet to do it. It looks like the lead goes in upside down, and the brass up. Then the lead is "mashed" into the case/jacket.

Would that bullet in those pics be possible to make for a 44 mag?? I am quite sure the die is out there by Corbin or C&H.

Is the bullet on the far right a factory bullet shown for comparison? Also, does the base of the casing effect the way the bullet flies?Thanks......Joel

[Pete D.]

kawalekm: Very nice. What die did you use for that?

Pete

[MIBULLETS]

Were the cases heated first to soften the brass? It looks like the case actually folded over the extractor groove, is that right? They look like they would be quite devastating to what ever they hit. Real nice!

[merrden]

These look awesome!! How about complete instructions? I got thousands of 40 s&w cases and no gun or molds. I need lots 0f 44s Hollow points heh heh heh!! How do they perform?
Please advise.

[fivegunner]

I to would like to make these bullets could you teach us how its done? and what dies to get?? thanks

[kawalekm]

I started with regular .40 S&W brass that I heated red hot on the kitchen stove. After cooling I dropped in a .40 caliber TC bullet (Lyman) cast in pure lead. I used CH .44 caliber core-seating, and swaging dies in a RCBS rockchucker press. Final bullet diameter mikes at .429" with a weight of 245 grains. If you flip the bullet over and look at its base you can still read the caliber and manufacturer information. The extraction grove collapes itself during swaging. The bullet on the far right is a Sierra 240 grain hollowpoint for comparison. I just can't wait to test this bullet during deer season. Hopefully, the bullet will be recovered from the deer if I get a shot. That would be a great end to the whole story.
Michael

[only1asterisk]

Guess who just ordered those dies in .44 and .40...

[luober]

to KAWALEKM:

when you heated the 40 cal cases to anneal them did you air cool them or quench them in water?

[BT Sniper]

Hello everyone,

I have been following this project since Kawalekm posted results early last spring. It too convinced me to purchase the dies from CH. I have no prior casting or swaging experance and my learning curve was rather steep. I have been leary to post results for fear a run on 40 S&W cases and lead will limit the supply. It has been that much fun and rewarding! Also frustrating at times. I broke 3 presses, all not up to the challange. Finally bought a Redding Big Boss press now all is well. I followed previous advise and purchased a Lee bullet mould with 20lb melting pot. The CH dies are not rated above pure lead and all I have is wheel weights. This has been the reason for my troubles, but with a little trial and error I am now swaging 250 gr .429 bullets for my 44 mag with hard lead core. I had to make some stonger componets for the dies as the wheel weights will in fact cause damage to the smaller parts in the die.
Just got back from range with good results from these bullets. Shot just as good as the Hornady 240 xtps at 1350 fps. Shot into dry newspaper all held their core while half the xtps shed theirs.
Process should also work for 40 cal with 9mm cases for jackets.
As far as the cost:
$15 lee bullet mould
$40 melting pot
$125 CH dies
Found 40 S&W $20 per thousand
Free wheel weights
possible new press
So about $200 investment for me and now have nearly 4,000 bullets. Certainly less than factory and very rewarding yet time consuming. Lets face it who knows how much ammo will be in future.

Thanks to all who have posted helpfull info on this sight. I am all ready thinking up new projects (.338 riffle bullet from .223 brass case). I will post some pics as soon as I figure out how. Feel free with any ?s Oh ya, sorry for any spelling errors. It is way to late out west.

Good shooting

[MIBULLETS]

BT Sniper,
I have made some 358 rifle bullets from 223 brass. I first had to trim the cases off at about 1" long, heated them red hot to soften them, then ran the case through a jacket reducing die (223 cases are about .375") to reduce them to about .355. After that just seat the core and point them up. The cases cut to 1" make me around a 225 gr bullet in 358 caliber.

M1 carbine brass may work better if you can get any. It starts at about .355 so you wouldn't have to reduce it so far.

[NSP64]

BT Sniper, I have some range find 30 carbine berdan primed cases that I will send to you if you want to try them for .338 rifle.

[BT Sniper]

30 carbine does look like it would work best. Brass seams a alittle hard to come by.

NSP64 That is very kind of you. I'll take as many 30 carbine as you would like to part with, and from anyone else for that matter. I'll PM you my address.

MIBULLETS How is the 223 jacket bullet working out? What riffle, fps, accuracy, etc.? How difficult was the reducing 20 thou? Would it be able to reduce again? I don't have any dies yet to make .338 bullets but want outcome in the 300 grain vld style. My thoughts are open up the 223 case mouth, then reduce to size. The case could be held in shell holder which would only reducing as far as the web of the case making it look like a belted mag. Core seating and point forming could be done without a top punch I would think. Then try and push the end of the now formed bullet threw a final reducing die to size. Or cut of the remaining bottom of case that is not sized, or even turn it down in lathe. Just my thoughts would certainly like opinions from others.

Would the 32 S&W long dies work to reduce the case and maybe even seat the core with some mods if necessary? Looks like .335 dia would be just the right size for the core seating then ofcourse swaged up to .338?

Thanks

[Ballard]

Ok, I have what is probably a silly question, but I'm going to ask anyway. Do you deprime the empty .40 first, or leave the spent primer in?

[BT Sniper]

Leave it in. One less step in the process. All I do is tumble the brass before annealing it. I don't bother resizing it. I put the cast bullet in the case tip first (upside down) without any problems. Have tried to fill case with moltent lead but like others the total weight varied too much. Finished bullet will look brown from annealing, But an hour in corn cob with media polish looks like new. An interesting side note, the finished bullet from the ch dies seem to have a long nose for 44 mag ops. with the extraction grove still on the bullet I was able to mount the bullet in a case trimer and even out the meatplat of the bullet, reducing it's length by 10 thousandth. This also helped me uniform the weight of the bullets from +or- 2 grains to +or- 1 grain. Before that I had actually trickeled powdered lead in the hollow point to make it +or- .2 grain and reswage it but this was a little to much work for pistol bullets.

Any one ever try making glazer safty slugs? Looks like I could fill this case with lead shot then top it off with an 8mm airsoft plastic pellet for EXPLOSIVE results.

More later,



Brian