Chamber Reaming- Is it really that easy?

[Beaverhunter2]

I'm considering converting a Savage 24F from .30-30 to .30-30 AI. From my reading, it seems like I need to do is rent a Reamer and a Go/No-Go Headspace set, work slowly (by hand) and lube, clean, & check often. Since .30-30 headspaces on the rim, I don't think I need to shorten the barrel for safe fire-forming.

Is this really all there is to it?

I can't afford to put much more money into my shooting addiction. However, this seems like a fairly low-budget improvement on a fun gun.

Advice is greatly appreciated!

John

[No_1]

The real deal on the AI cartridges is that you are suppose to remove the barrel, set it back, reinstall it then ream the chamber with the AI reamer. Can you do it without setting back the barrel? I am sure you can but then you might not want to full length size the brass even with AI dies because you may set the shoulder back to far. Has it been done without setting back the barrel? I am sure it has. Google AI chambering and see what you come up with.

Robert

[yondering]

No, Beaverhunter2 is right on the 30-30 "improved" chambering, it doesn't need the barrel set back, because it doesn't headspace on the shoulder. It's not a true Ackley chamber, as the shoulder is blown forward farther. Rimless cartridges DO headspace on the shoulder, and DO need the barrel set back for "Ackley" chambers, but not rimmed cartridges. The 22 K Hornet is a similar example.

Beaverhunter2, you pretty much have it right, but don't forget to add the cost of new dies; your standard 30-30 dies won't work.
Reaming the chamber by hand really depends on your skill level. If you are handy with tools and a better than average craftsman, you can do it with good results; but it's easy to mess up and get a crooked or off-center chamber too. I've done several rifle chambers by hand with good results, so it certainly can be done. Like you said, go slow, check often, and don't force the reamer. Light pressure is all it needs.

[No_1]

Gents,
I have a 30-30 AI built on a Savage 170. It was 1 of 2 done by the same guy at the same time. My dad kept one and I ended up with one. On those 2 particular rifles the barrels had to be removed and set back to get clean chambers. As a matter of fact, 1 of the rifles had to be redone. The chamber recess in most rifles that use rimmed cartridges have +/- tolerance to make up for the difference in brass rim thickness, tooling wear and I am sure other variables. They do not "crush" or even remotely fit perfect/tight when the breech or bolt is closed against the cartridge rim. The one particular rifle had enough + tolerance in the rim recess for the cartridge to be driven forward by the firing pin which allowed the primer to back out when a factory case was fired. So in closing, in our particular instance, the barrels had to be set back and recut just to get a better rim recess. And yes, I understand the point of shoulder is ~.150 further forward so it should work.

Robert

[Bret4207]

Well, there's no way I know of to simply set the barrel back on a Savage 24, so better check this out really, really well before making a move.

[yondering]

Gents,
On those 2 particular rifles the barrels had to be removed and set back to get clean chambers...
The one particular rifle had enough + tolerance in the rim recess for the cartridge to be driven forward by the firing pin which allowed the primer to back out when a factory case was fired. So in closing, in our particular instance, the barrels had to be set back and recut just to get a better rim recess. Robert

I hear ya, but that has nothing to do with cutting an improved chamber. That was a problem your gun had originally, before anybody cut an improved chamber. (Unless the gunsmith messed up and ran the reamer in too far, and created excess headspace.) If your barrel had a sloppy chamber and/or excess rim headspace to start with, it would need to have the barrel set back whether it was getting the standard chamber OR the Improved.

If Beaverhunter2's chamber isn't too sloppy right now, and he does a good job with the chamber reamer, there is no reason to set the barrel back. In fact, the improved chambering can allow for headspacing on the shoulder, if he wanted, in the case of a sloppy rim cut w/ excess headspace. This of course would require partial or neck sizing of fireformed brass, but that's standard procedure for a lot of guys anyway, myself included.

If the headspace on the rim is sloppy, you can still form brass for it by seating boolits long for a crush fit (on the first firing of that brass). This will form the brass with the correct headspace from the shoulder, and it can be loaded normally after that.

[johnly]

If you really want a 100% clean chamber, I have a 30-40 Krag AI reamer I can loan you.

John

[No_1]

Yondering,

I understand what you are saying and agree completely. I was trying to let Beaverhunter know that it might not be as easy as just running a reamer in it, shooting factory ammo in it and expect everything to be hunky-dorey. "Sometimes" there can be problems as my case has shown.

Robert

I hear ya, but that has nothing to do with cutting an improved chamber. That was a problem your gun had originally, before anybody cut an improved chamber. (Unless the gunsmith messed up and ran the reamer in too far, and created excess headspace.) If your barrel had a sloppy chamber and/or excess rim headspace to start with, it would need to have the barrel set back whether it was getting the standard chamber OR the Improved.

If Beaverhunter2's chamber isn't too sloppy right now, and he does a good job with the chamber reamer, there is no reason to set the barrel back. In fact, the improved chambering can allow for headspacing on the shoulder, if he wanted, in the case of a sloppy rim cut w/ excess headspace. This of course would require partial or neck sizing of fireformed brass, but that's standard procedure for a lot of guys anyway, myself included.

If the headspace on the rim is sloppy, you can still form brass for it by seating boolits long for a crush fit (on the first firing of that brass). This will form the brass with the correct headspace from the shoulder, and it can be loaded normally after that.

[badgeredd]

Well, there's no way I know of to simply set the barrel back on a Savage 24, so better check this out really, really well before making a move.

TOTALLY correct.

I'd headspace the barrel BEFORE thinking about going any further. If the hadspace was ok, I'd then do a chamber cast to be sure the chamber would clean up. If it did check out, I would continue.

I have to ask though, why go to the improved chamber in a 24? Realistically, one couldn't really achieve any real benefits because the action isn't that strong, and a further detriment is that the 30-30 barrel is the farthest from the hinge point which would add additional stress on the action. It may (?) improve brass life. Loading density would suffer for the normal 30-30 powders.

I'm not trying to argue here but I am concerned whether the cambering would be safe if the gun were sold to someone else.

Something to consider?

Edd

[Newtire]

If I may add just 2 or 3 cents worth about the Ackley chamberings. I have an Ackley .30-30 20" bbl. Win. 94 AE. I just got my chronograph and had been chrono testing some .257 AI loads with satisfying results. The .30-30 AI with a 150 j-word went at an even 2300 FPS using 35.5 grains of IMR 4064. A 175 grain Group Buy 311407 with that same powder charge went at 2077-2153 FPS. I was expecting a little better than that and if I had my druthers, I would leave that 30-30 alone. I do think that the .257 AI is a very good idea from the results I am getting though!

[Willbird]

If I may add just 2 or 3 cents worth about the Ackley chamberings. I have an Ackley .30-30 20" bbl. Win. 94 AE. I just got my chronograph and had been chrono testing some .257 AI loads with satisfying results. The .30-30 AI with a 150 j-word went at an even 2300 FPS using 35.5 grains of IMR 4064. A 175 grain Group Buy 311407 with that same powder charge went at 2077-2153 FPS. I was expecting a little better than that and if I had my druthers, I would leave that 30-30 alone. I do think that the .257 AI is a very good idea from the results I am getting though!

There was an article in Precision shooting where the author compared 257AI and 25-06, the skinny is that they are identical cartridges ballistically. I have a reamer for 257AI that I have never used............yet

[Beaverhunter2]

Thanks for all the input, guys. I just received my first .30 cal moulds and hope to take the gun to the range this weekend for it's intro to cast.

Johnly, thanks so much for your very kind offer!

Still no decision on where I'm going to go. I just was kind of surprised to hear that rechambering was somehting that someone could probably do on their own.

Thanks again! I'll keep you informed (if your interested).

John

[leadman]

I had a Contender 30-30 barrel rechambered to 30-30AI and would do it again.

If you read Ackley's books you will understand the concept behind the Improved cartridges. It allows for higher pressure without increasing back thrust against the bolt or breech face. Ackley removed the locking bolt from a Win 94 and fired it with full loads in the 30-30AI and the action did not open as the case grips the chamber walls better than the standard cartridge.

I also had my 14" barrel cut down and a 1 1/2" muzzle brake installed. Even with the reduced barrel length I am able to achieve 2300fps with a 150 gr Nosler BT, about what a 30-30 rifle or carbine gets. Case life is good with no loose primer pockets. Cases shorten a little on initial fireforming and I have not had to trim any yet.

And it still has enough neck to work well with gas checked cast boolits. Reduced loads still work well as case capacity is increased only a little, 10% IIRC.

[nanuk]

so the answer is, 'Maybe, depending on your gun'?

Everything i have read, agrees with everyone's experiences.

i"ve never done it due to cost of reamers.

but I fully intent to in the near future. I am thinking 303Epps. but need to see if it needs setback.

[Artful]

I had a Contender 30-30 barrel rechambered to 30-30AI and would do it again.

+1

I used to have one the only thing was with the blown out case it was better to fire form them first for maximum life in my experience. (you know put about 5-10 grains of fast pistol powder and a little cream of wheat, aim up and make the case fit the chamber without any stretch weakening.

[curator]

I rechambered my Handi-Rifle .30-30 Win to .30-30AI. It was very easy using a reamer from Reamer Rental folks. About a 20 minute job going very slow and checking/cleaning often. Once done, fireforming was a simple--just shoot your factory brass. Case headspaced on rim, don't deepen the rim recess and you're OK.

I shoot only cast boolits with this gun. The AI chamber allows me to use a bit more slow rifle powder to get higher velocity at lower pressures. I do shoot 180 grain LBT-LFN ACWW boolits at 2400fps with excellent accuracy. I also use the Lee .30-30 collet die to neck size brass without a problem. Cases seem to last forever.

[madsenshooter]

I'm considering converting a Savage 24F from .30-30 to .30-30 AI. From my reading, it seems like I need to do is rent a Reamer and a Go/No-Go Headspace set, work slowly (by hand) and lube, clean, & check often. Since .30-30 headspaces on the rim, I don't think I need to shorten the barrel for safe fire-forming.

Is this really all there is to it?

I can't afford to put much more money into my shooting addiction. However, this seems like a fairly low-budget improvement on a fun gun.

Advice is greatly appreciated!

John

You won't really need a headspace gauge, just stop when you start cutting the cutout for the rim that's already there. I'd be tempted to turn it into a 30/40, though brass for those hasn't been easy to get lately.

[ammohead]

There was an article in Precision shooting where the author compared 257AI and 25-06, the skinny is that they are identical cartridges ballistically. I have a reamer for 257AI that I have never used............yet

They are nearly identical ballisticallly but the 257AI achieves it with 7 - 8 gr less powder. One of the best results from the "improved" process.

ammohead

[bruce drake]

I converted a 6.5 Jap to 260 Remington last year by hand. Take it slow and keep the reamer well lubed so it doesn't chatter and dull as you turn it. Do not turn it in reverse as it might roll the edges of the reamer blades over and dull it (don't ask me how I know that - just realize it took longer than it should have because of it)

You'll need an extension for your wrench to reach the reamer through the receiver but that's a easy thing to pick up.

Bruce

[geargnasher]

One more tidbit, you might want to add the "A. I." to the caliber marks for the benefit of future owners.

Gear