Primer cost

[uscra112]

Very informative article. Thank you for posting.

[Forrest r]

I always looked at the cost of primers in 2 ways.

Compared it to the cost of 22lr blammo ammo. If I buy 22lr blammo ammo @ $.03 a round my primers shouldn't cost more than $30/1000.

This brings me to the 2nd way I look at the cost of primers or ammo/reloading supplies. When prices get stupid like they are now I refuse to buy anything. Why feed the machine??? When people quit paying/buying things like primers at these inflated prices. The prices will come down.

I'm 1 of those that have stocked up when prices were "normal". Not only on primers & powder, I also bought cases of 22lr ammo (cheap blammo ammo). Couple that with changing my shooting habits like instead of ripping thru +/- 500 pistol/revolver rounds in 1 range session. I burn thru 100 rounds on dumps/rapid fires and incorporate another 100 rounds in slow fire/accuracy drills. The pellet guns get a lot more use during these dry spells also.

If I run out of the different (sp/lp/sm/lr) primers I'll find something else to shoot or do. I just wish more people would quit buying primers at these inflated prices. The mfg's can cut back all they want & shops stores can fill their shelves as full as they want. No $$$ coming in means they'll have to adjust the cost to what the consumer is willing to pay.

[uscra112]

You should read the article posted just above. We are no longer in a pure free-market situation. Only two large suppliers exist, and they won't LET the prices come down, for lack of competitors. Monopoly market. People paying what used to be considered scalpers' prices are not the problem.

[Forrest r]

Actually, I did.

If no one buys their products, they'll have either lower the price or borrow $$$/sell assets to stay in business. I understand it's a huge company with a diverse/wide range of products targeting the shooting/firearms industry. But being this big also gives anyone a lot of different areas to exploit if they chose to do so.

The real issue is the consumer. It would take a banded effort to counter what they're doing. But it also be extremely easy to affect their bottom line thru constant questioning/bad reviews/returns/warrantee issues/etc. Last thing any company wants to do is pay 3x for selling/reshipping the same product.

Myself I have no issues buying megtech (cbc), fiocchi or s&b primers when the $$$ is right.

[uscra112]

What effect does it have on Walmart or Amazon if we as individuals boycott them? Several zeros to the right of the decimal point.

[dverna]

Fiocchi already has manufacturing in the US. They likely do not produce primers here, but they have the technology and experience. Not too difficult to set up a production line for them. They could approach a few of the larger distributors to "jump start" a primer division by supplying primers from offshore while a production line was being installed. This gives them a low-risk opportunity and instant distribution.

If I was the owner of Powder Valley, I would be approaching them with a proposal. KS is not a long drive from MS or AR. Face to face meetings are interesting.

[Forrest r]

What effect does it have on Walmart or Amazon if we as individuals boycott them? Several zeros to the right of the decimal point.

Think small be small

Myself I had a little over $400 worth of scopes & reloading equipment laying around that were under warrantee that needed fixed. Most of it I bought used that way cheap. Doesn't matter they fixed it on their dime which allowed me to resell everything. It cost them the warrantee work along with the loss of sales of people buying their items at inflated prices compared to my low pricing/saving the people that bought these items from me.

What's +/- $400 1 person costing such a large corporation as vista's bottom line??? Not much. Take 100,000 people from 1 website that supports shooting sports doing the same thing and it starts to add up. Take 10 sites doing the same thing and well I'm not sure what will change 1st. Their policies or the under garments.

Hence my statement "banded effort"

anyway no big deal. People should simply realize they're not going to change until they are forced to.

[Baltimoreed]

Not planning on buying primers until they hit 50.00 or less or I break into my last brick. At my rate of consumption —about 4 to 5 years of conservative shooting. Ammo is slowly returning to shelves, there’s no reason to think components won’t either. There’s too much money on the table.

[uscra112]

Fiocchi already has manufacturing in the US. They likely do not produce primers here, but they have the technology and experience. Not too difficult to set up a production line for them. They could approach a few of the larger distributors to "jump start" a primer division by supplying primers from offshore while a production line was being installed. This gives them a low-risk opportunity and instant distribution.

If I was the owner of Powder Valley, I would be approaching them with a proposal. KS is not a long drive from MS or AR. Face to face meetings are interesting.

Speaking from the viewpoint of a superannuated process control engineer, it does seem that setting up a primers-only facility wouldn't break the bank. One Minster Hummingbird to produce anvils, another for cups, and a safe process to mix and handle the compound. We know that actually filling and assembly are still manual operations, so some trained people would need to be acquired.

Independent brass mfgrs like Starline could get into it in a New York Minute, could they not?

[dverna]

Speaking from the viewpoint of a superannuated process control engineer, it does seem that setting up a primers-only facility wouldn't break the bank. One Minster Hummingbird to produce anvils, another for cups, and a safe process to mix and handle the compound. We know that actually filling and assembly are still manual operations, so some trained people would need to be acquired.

Independent brass mfgrs like Starline could get into it in a New York Minute, could they not?

Starline is not a good fit. They can barely keep up with producing brass. But more critical, they have no expertise. Fiocchi, produces primers and all they need to do is send a couple of guys across The Great Pond for a year to supervise construction and provide technical assistance.

I worked for a Finnish firm that did that in another industry and it worked out well. Many business and technical folks in Europe have good English skills and really enjoy an assignment like that.

If prices stay stupid and/or market demand holds up it will happen. BTW, I am a spaghetti bender and know they have some decent engineers there. Fiocchi makes the most sense as they have plants here, infrastructure, sales and marketing etc. They are also big enough that the two gorillas will have trouble beating them up.

BTW, what the gorillas are doing is illegal. If a whistleblower comes forward, they will be heavily fined, which is not too bad...but they could be forced to divest divisions. Just depends who they have bribed. I sound cynical because I have worked in an industry with limited competition.

[uscra112]

Wonder if you could start by paying for dies for the Miinsters, and subcontract the actual stamping until you can afford your own.

Yah, OK, get Fiocchi or another of the Europeans to come over here with expertise. Subcontract the cups and anvils as above. The cost of a facility to mix and measure the compound can't cost all that much. Hiring and training the people might be a problem, since the Amarican workforce has become such a bunch of slackers. Oh, and permits and licensing. One of the worst hurdles of starting any business here now.

Meanwhile we have threads here about making them at home. . . . . .

[racepres]

I always looked at the cost of primers in 2 ways.

Compared it to the cost of 22lr blammo ammo. If I buy 22lr blammo ammo @ $.03 a round my primers shouldn't cost more than $30/1000.

This brings me to the 2nd way I look at the cost of primers or ammo/reloading supplies. When prices get stupid like they are now I refuse to buy anything. Why feed the machine??? When people quit paying/buying things like primers at these inflated prices. The prices will come down.

I'm 1 of those that have stocked up when prices were "normal". Not only on primers & powder, I also bought cases of 22lr ammo (cheap blammo ammo). Couple that with changing my shooting habits like instead of ripping thru +/- 500 pistol/revolver rounds in 1 range session. I burn thru 100 rounds on dumps/rapid fires and incorporate another 100 rounds in slow fire/accuracy drills. The pellet guns get a lot more use during these dry spells also.

If I run out of the different (sp/lp/sm/lr) primers I'll find something else to shoot or do. I just wish more people would quit buying primers at these inflated prices. The mfg's can cut back all they want & shops stores can fill their shelves as full as they want. No $$$ coming in means they'll have to adjust the cost to what the consumer is willing to pay.

Well Said...I can Wait...always have!!! Obviously been married a very Long Time!!!!!!!

[GrizzLeeBear]

CCI small rifle and small rifle magnum primers available at midway right now

CCI 450 $90.00 per 1000 (with a limit of 1). add $30 for hazmat + shipping = $120.00 per 1000. No thanks.

[PrestoColumbus]

Question for you all, from an unexperienced novice (this is my first shortage to live thru)

How are you keeping yourselves safe from online scams?

somethings I've been thinking about
- stick with name-brand stores (Midway, Brownells, etc)
- find other lesser known stores thru sites like ammoseek Is this a reliable?
- what red-flags indicate danger?
---- webstores requiring minimum purchase ($200 or more)
---- unbelievable deals ($35/1000 with many different brands in stock... hard to believe)
---- no listing on ammoseek
---- ridiculous shipping cost ($50-$100) (I get hazmat fees but I've seen some crazy shipping costs out there)

anyway, just looking for more advice.

tank smudge

[trails4u]

be patient, and be willing/able to buy what someone might be parting with locally. spend time on auction/estate sale sites and be willing to show up early if one shows promise. most of what i have in inventory has been bought in bulk....some i needed/wanted, some not, but the bulk deal buying made it worth it. what i don't need i sell back at a fair price and still end up ok.

[uscra112]

Hard to lay down hard and fast rules. Going just by "name brand" isn't necessarily safe, even. (e.g. I won't buy from Midway ever again.)

Name brand outfits I DO buy from
Brownells
Mid-South
Natchez
Widener's
Graf's
Huntington's
Duck Creek
Powder Valley

I troll Gunbroker a lot, but I have only bought ammo once from a vendor there. Paid a scalper's price because I had to. Auction sites are rife with fly-by-nighters selling defective stuff, so if there's any chance, don't buy. GB does have a feedback system like evilBay, so you can judge from that.

LOL!!! I hadn't looked a primers on GB for quite some while (years). Over $200 a brick and climbing! Yikes! If I chose to sell out, I could buy that new side-by-side ATV I've been wanting!

[rototerrier]

be patient, and be willing/able to buy what someone might be parting with locally. spend time on auction/estate sale sites and be willing to show up early if one shows promise. most of what i have in inventory has been bought in bulk....some i needed/wanted, some not, but the bulk deal buying made it worth it. what i don't need i sell back at a fair price and still end up ok.

++++1

This is how I’ve always done it. The only way to really build your inventory and save a buck is to buy out others in large lots. You have to be prepared to spend big and even purchase the items you don’t want. Make it easy on them to sell out so that you get the entire lot at a discount. Then you put in the effort to sell off individual items you don’t need and keep the rest.

You may have to spend 3k to get the 2k worth of stuff but then you sell off the extra 1k for 2k and you just got everything at half price or better.

[Bmi48219]

CCI 450 $90.00 per 1000 (with a limit of 1). add $30 for hazmat + shipping = $120.00 per 1000. No thanks.

Face the facts, the sale of primers to the reloading community is pretty far down the priority list of ammo manufacturers in general. Nine mm range ammo is going for about $.36 per round including profit. Generally speaking the components used cost $.30 total per round at retail prices. Put simply manufacturers always get a higher return on investment for finished products. Why would they reduce highly profitable ammo production to sell what is probably the most difficult to make and versatile component they need. Primer prices won’t go down until after the demand for ammo goes down.
If ammo manufacturers manipulate the supply of their finished product it will be worse.

[Jaaymar]

First.
Don’t buy loaded ammo where they used spent primers.
Second.
Avoid loaded ammo for a revolver that has no discernible crimp.
Third.
If the loaded ammo is new the cases should shine.

[Outer Rondacker]

Just opened my last box of 1000 CCI small magnum pistol primers. Price on the box is 12.79. Not bad.