Wad Suggestions for 00 Buckshot - What are your favorites?

[LeonCarr]

Claybuster CB1138-12.

IMO/IME it is the most versatile wad for loading 00 buckshot. Wade Rush/Bubba Rountree Outdoors likes it too.

To the OP...Pattern testing with different loads and different chokes in your shotgun is the path to buckshot nirvana. The one load you tried from the BPI Buckshot Manual that your shotgun didn't like might be a laser in somebody else's shotgun.

No shortcuts to performance.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[centershot]

Hogtamer has posted some pretty good loads for buckshot. One of the keys to success in his loads is a pellet stack in layers of two, not three. This allows a little room for the pellets to move around as they pass through the choke without being deformed. Not all wads will allow a 2x stack. Also, you want hard buckshot. I use an alloy of 92-6-2, water-dropped, which gives a BHN of around 22. 92-6-2 is Hardball alloy, easily made by cutting pure linotype with pure lead 50/50. Hard shot deforms less and patterns better.

[mac60]

Claybuster CB1138-12.

IMO/IME it is the most versatile wad for loading 00 buckshot. Wade Rush/Bubba Rountree Outdoors likes it too.

To the OP...Pattern testing with different loads and different chokes in your shotgun is the path to buckshot nirvana. The one load you tried from the BPI Buckshot Manual that your shotgun didn't like might be a laser in somebody else's shotgun.

No shortcuts to performance.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

I like that one as well as BP's MG42 - for hulls it's a straight wall. If it's not either of those then it's factory style with a gas seal and a fiber cushion wad. One of those setups covers my needs just fine. Oh and a Buck kicker standard full choke.

[Brassmonkey]

Flite control wads get my vote.

[MrHarmless]

Indeed so!

SAAMI 00B .315" to .345"

Yep, it's gonna change slightly between not only machining tolerances, but also the mix of lead you're using. Anything but pure is going to have a different density, and shrink differently.

[RMc]

Yep, it's gonna change slightly between not only machining tolerances, but also the mix of lead you're using. Anything but pure is going to have a different density, and shrink differently.

Point:
Many new handloaders often become frustrated trying to assemble loads that mimic factory buckshot rounds. This without realizing most factory 00B and #1B pellets run closer to .315" and .285" diameter respectively. Indeed, these are quite a bit smaller than the advertised nominal of .33" and .30"

[W.R.Buchanan]

Flite control wads get my vote.

Do you have a source for Flite Control Wads?

Randy

[quail4jake]

All great ideas... if shotgun loading is somewhat empiric then loading buckshot is voodoo! You'll hear everything from "full choke is best, always!" to "buckshot is designed for cylinder bore only!" and other gunshop expert quotes; "larger buckshot patterns tighter" and " it only works over 1400 fps, otherwise buckshot is completely ineffective and should be illegal!". Now look...we all know that the truth lies somewhere in the gray zone and there is little fact in all these platitudes, but there is some fact, just very little.
I started looking at buckshot after we moved to Pennsylvania where it is not legal for deer hunting. Ironic? Waste of time? Maybe, but I did this after hunting deer in NJ for 40+ years and seeing bizarre things happen that made me think "one fine day I'm going to find out what really happens when we spray buckshot at deer". Well after our exodus from the Peoples Republic of New Jersey it worked out that we go back to visit my folks and go deer hunting there but this time a little different. We (my two boys and I) hunt public land in the pines using our SXS hammer guns with both black powder loads and nitro loads using buckshot that I loaded and trialed and actually made reliable patterns out to 40 yards. It's alot of fun and a great challenge but we only load lower pressure, conservative loads and limit range to 40 yards. I'm willing to share our experience with anyone who wants to do something similar but I'm of no value if you want range beyond 40 yards, 3 1/2" 12ga or supercharged loads etc. If anyone has an interest in our loading, how we pattern, chronograph etc. please let me know...

[Buck Shot]

I have a HEAP of 12 ga Windjammer wads (and AA hulls) from when I lived near a skeet field. Now live in a place with no skeet fields anywhere around, and still have a mountain of those wads. I think they're meant for a 1-1/8 oz load. Any chance they could be used for (light) buckshot loads? (My shotgun reloading experience is limited to #9 shot target loads...and I'm not sure how I'd load buckshot loads using my MEC 650, but just thought I'd ask the more knowledgeable folks here, in case I ever want to try it.)

[45-70 Chevroner]

I use a 1 ounce Universal wad with 9 .33 caliber balls from a Lee 18 cavity mold, 21 gr. Unique in a double AA 1 3/4" shell. Even with the little tits left on the balls from cutting them apart with dikes, they pattern quit well out to 20 yards on a man size piece of cardboard.

Well I see I made a serious mistake here. I should have said 2 3/4" shell. I hope the OP caught that.

[centershot]

All great ideas... if shotgun loading is somewhat empiric then loading buckshot is voodoo! You'll hear everything from "full choke is best, always!" to "buckshot is designed for cylinder bore only!" and other gunshop expert quotes; "larger buckshot patterns tighter" and " it only works over 1400 fps, otherwise buckshot is completely ineffective and should be illegal!". Now look...we all know that the truth lies somewhere in the gray zone and there is little fact in all these platitudes, but there is some fact, just very little.
I started looking at buckshot after we moved to Pennsylvania where it is not legal for deer hunting. Ironic? Waste of time? Maybe, but I did this after hunting deer in NJ for 40+ years and seeing bizarre things happen that made me think "one fine day I'm going to find out what really happens when we spray buckshot at deer". Well after our exodus from the Peoples Republic of New Jersey it worked out that we go back to visit my folks and go deer hunting there but this time a little different. We (my two boys and I) hunt public land in the pines using our SXS hammer guns with both black powder loads and nitro loads using buckshot that I loaded and trialed and actually made reliable patterns out to 40 yards. It's alot of fun and a great challenge but we only load lower pressure, conservative loads and limit range to 40 yards. I'm willing to share our experience with anyone who wants to do something similar but I'm of no value if you want range beyond 40 yards, 3 1/2" 12ga or supercharged loads etc. If anyone has an interest in our loading, how we pattern, chronograph etc. please let me know...

Yes! By all means, I'd love to hear of your experiences!

[centershot]

I have a HEAP of 12 ga Windjammer wads (and AA hulls) from when I lived near a skeet field. Now live in a place with no skeet fields anywhere around, and still have a mountain of those wads. I think they're meant for a 1-1/8 oz load. Any chance they could be used for (light) buckshot loads? (My shotgun reloading experience is limited to #9 shot target loads...and I'm not sure how I'd load buckshot loads using my MEC 650, but just thought I'd ask the more knowledgeable folks here, in case I ever want to try it.)

Buckshot,

Generally speaking, a 1-1//8 oz. payload is a 1-1/8 oz. payload. Whatever safe load you used for skeet can be loaded for buckshot pellets. Your patterns may not be the best, but yes, you can use the same components. Your shotgun won't care if it's a 1-1/8 oz. of 9's or buckshot.

[quail4jake]

Thanks, Centershot, for the prompt...Sooo, back in Jersey I remember shooting a doe at very close range with Remington No 1 buck, running off and killed by a friend with a slug. We found 1 (one) pellet of No 1 buck in the paunch. Then there was the time that I witnessed 2 doe killed on the run at 75 yards with 00 buck, that was a 10 gauge and the operator one of the most talented deer hunters I know. Those doe were hit several times in vital areas. These trite little anecdotes and many others took me down the rabbit hole of buckshot development, deep!
Firstly, I used Winchester XX mag 3" No 4B with 41 pellets in a Charles Daly SXS with Briley IM tubes that patterns 98% @ 40 yds and shreds deer lungs. That combo is , to this day, the best factory loads I've ever tested. but I arrived at that after many years of failures and assumptions that had my know maximum range down to 20 yards but I killed alot of deer so close that I could smell 'em. Eventually my best deer weapon was a cal .50 flintlock since I believed buckshot so ineffective beyond skeet range. Come ahead 25 years to 2017 when we started "retro" hunting and the latest fashion became a Remington 1889, Fox CE X full, Parry 1890 etc. All these old SXS are great long range guns but need a diet of low pressure, easy going loads but do well with heavy shot loads at low speed. Our goal became repeatable 40 yard performance with period loads both smokeless and black powder. I will include pics soon but for now a brief description of "performance"....Deer are not 30" diameter. Deer do not have a 20" core and 10" outer ring. I'm yet to see a deer divided into quadrants. Now I know the reasons that we pattern this way with fine shot and it all makes sense but we got together (my sons and I- the "ballistic council") and looked at what matters and came up with deer size target templates cut out of masonite to outline heart, lungs and another the size of brain and spinal cord. These are used to spray paint (white) the outer body on .007" kraft paper 28" x 28" then trace vitals and brain / cord on the brown body outline. This is our standard deer target that we post on a plywood backer and shoot at 40 yards as a test standard, we also move it to different ranges to develop skill and most of all for fun! We also shoot rifles at the same target out to very long ranges, the brown body and non visible vitals give no advantage over the real thing, we like it that way. Now when we talk about buckshot or any deer rifle we reference total and % body, vitals, heart, brain / cord hits. That is our standard for trials as well as our own competition, no more pattern % in 30" @ 40 yards, we just don't think it's relevant. It is in fine shot, different conversation.
In order to develop a load it really helps to first test some factory loads to set a standard to achieve or one to avoid. In our case it was the latter except for the 3" Win XX we cited earlier. Well it just so happened that I had some of those good ole Remington No 1B 2 3/4" factory loads around from 1970 something, you know the ones where you shoot at a deer at 15 yards and they just run away? Yeah, just run away. Well at 40 yards these shells reliably put 1 or 2 of 12 pellets ON THE PAPER! Not the target, the paper! This is with any shotgun tried, even the Fox CE with .685" chokes. But the devil is in the details... about 25% of these pitiful patterns put 1 pellet in the vitals and a few times hit the brain / cord! So this means that you can buy the most pitiful shells, never practice, use any shotgun and once, once when the planets align you will drop a deer like a sack of potatoes with one pellet. We spent the better part of a day testing factory loads (all did better than the Remingtons, not much) and at the end of it all we kicked it around over malt drinks in front of the coal stove and established that shotguns are for crushing clays and buckshot is not useful.
A few days later, when cooler heads prevail, I started ordering things from BPI and searching old loads on the net, reviewing Cast Boolits archives and making a cogent plan. The first thing we established is that all components are weighed and measured, loads are hand assembled using the press for priming, ramming, crimping etc.. Initial testing starts with 4 rounds over the chrono and fired offhand with the same gun, if the load seems worthwhile then choke testing with various guns is done with no chrono. Then the fun...repeat many times averaging targets and doing composite targets to up the n number to statistical significance for comparison. Really, long before statistical significance you can see empirically a load / gun combo that just plain works. Several vital hits every shot works, lucky brain / cord hits with few body hits is failure.
A few observations: BPI nickel plated shot performed better than lead shot. No buckshot (at least what we bought from BPI) was diameter or weight correct to the size assigned. Different lots of nickel plated shot of the same size varied. The good news: BPI nickel plated shot is very consistent from pellet to pellet in the same size / lot. Why does this matter? Because loads are designed and pressure tested by payload weight, not number of pellets, and underweight loads may fail to completely burn or even ignite a charge of slow(er) burning smokeless powder causing poor performance, inconsistency, bloopers etc. An overweight load may raise pressure to dangerous levels and increase erratic burning. Did I mention that our guns are over 100 years old and some have beautiful damascus barrels?
So how do we rectify the fact that BPI No 4B is really No 3B and 00 is way overweight? First there is the issue of stacking and fit. For us any stack in the wad or wrap must pass a full choke with thumb pressure. If not, no go. Stacks need to be comfortable but not loose so we don't use these either. I turned off a bored tube that tapers from .730 to .690 in 3" and that is our full choke standard. We use a cut off Federal Gold Medal hull to contain the wad / wrap set to evaluate a stack. The other issue is weight. Make a stack that works for a given pressure tested load of known weight and weigh it, if a little under weight we add No 8 shot to bring it up to stated weight, if over we scratch that combo. We combine different size shot to make weight then adjust small amounts with No 8 shot, this is the big winner and is how we arrived at our best performers, 00 and 0 stacked in 2s using MG42 in a Fiocchi hull with Longshot was a low pressure winner in the Fox CE and it was combining sizes that made it fly!
We decided to use only black powder in the damascus guns since the smokeless loads were rated in the 7-8000 range with a heavy payload and we like to keep our smokeless loads even lower in those guns. At first I thought that these would be a compromise but the targets and chrono told a different story. No need to fine tune weights with black powder, just need compression and heavy enough payloads for the charge. Comparing GOEX with Swiss revealed that GOEX is for something else...hard caked fouling, hot barrels, inconsistent and lower velocities for the same dram weight. The idea of nickel plated shot against composite barrels just put a stone in my crawl. Now I know "they" say that it's OK and won't cause scoring but our sweet little steel and iron wraps are in really great condition with very little pitting and have even been honed and cones bored out etc so I'm just not interested in risk. None. In addition, researching these loads shows that paper wrapping was used to form a protective cylinder around the shot and BPI has teflon wrapping cut to fit a 12 bore so we decided to make all wrapped loads with nitro card and fiber wad sets for black powder. We have no bare shot loads to compare to, we only use wrapped shot loads so we don't know if wrapping helps patterning. Don't bother with plastic wads in black powder shells, been there done that...nasty plastic fouling buildup that worstens with every shot and is very difficult to remove. Another point about black powder, in shotguns it is measured in drams. A dram is 27.34 gr. and a quarter dram is about 7 gr. A quarter dram of Swiss FFg is about the same volume as 1/8 oz of No 8 West Coast magnum shot. This is all good stuff to know when talking about black powder shotgunning, muzzleloading or cartridge since it is still the terminology of today. At the end of the day some of our black powder loads were the best patterning of all we tried and chrono results were in the same range of our low pressure smokeless loads. Cheddite paper hull, C209. 3 1/2 dr. FFg, 1/8 nitro card x 2, 16 pellets (4 x4) No 1 (closer to No 2) BPI nickel plated buckshot, teflon wrap and .035 over shot card with roll crimp and elegant victorian artwork on the hull and top card was a winner all around. I need to get the data book out but I think this made an average of 3 vital hits every time with some dead drop hits in the brain / cord. That was out of a Remington 1889 30" modified (.707) choke. Chrono about 1230 IIRC...will look it up. This load hits very hard and I killed a nice 6 pt with it at 25 yds, I think every pellet was in that deer, the base of the neck was flaccid, spinal column shattered. The same load with No 4F BPI nickel shot kills groundhogs at over 40 yds, I think it amounts to 1 3/8 oz.
In smokeless the load using Fiocchi hulls worked well and there is a similar load using Federal Gold Medal hulls that performed well, I only made plastic wad loads since I cannot find data for english (fiber card wad) loads using smokeless powder, there may be fertile ground for development there. I saw that someone was trying to use target wads for buckshot...I doubt that will work well, BPI has all kinds of heavy plastic wads (MG42 etc.) designed for this work but who knows? I will look all this up and attach my charts etc so it might help others. Substituting buckshot that stacks well in fine shot load data works well as long as you weigh the payload and adjust it with fine shot and adjust load height with felt wads and os cards. Published, pressure tested data only, don't substitute components. Take no risk. None. We are all responsible for those around us when firing our cherished relics and doing this safely is not that difficult but this handloading for vintage firearms is truly an academic study and not for the careless. Anyway enough BS for now, I will get out charts and data then "the rubber meets the road"!

[Hogtamer]

^^^^^^^
Excellent tutorial. I’m amazed the at folks don’t take time to test their loads on paper, just think “00” stuffed in a hull is the ticket to buckshot nirvana. Here’s the fruit of my own testing, with scores of dead pigs attesting the data for #1 and OO…. https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...hot+perfectionhttps://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...Pretty+in+Pink

[centershot]

quail4jake,
Excellent post! You are so correct, you don't know what you have until you run a bunch of patterns! I also appreciate your efforts on loading for your "heirloom" guns. I have a Flues model Ithaca SxS 12 ga. that I'm looking for some low pressure loads for. I've found a few, enough to hunt with this year, anyway. I keep thinking about black powder loads...........

[quail4jake]

Thanks! all great fun, good luck with that Flues. I will post some charts etc as soon as I figure out the best way. Sorry no paragraphs, when text is posted the indent disappears!? Also note that when I post anything it disappears from the general forum, I think I'm on the "ignore" list...I don't care but a thread falls into limbo whenever I post so when I get all the photos etc. I have to wait until someone else resurrects the thread. Just an FYI...

[Buck Shot]

Thank you for your reply, centershot. I just wanted to make sure those Windjammer wads won't "shred" and blow out all around the OOB, since using #9 shot with them presents more even "resistance" vs OOB in psi, in the same way that a water bed loads a floor more evenly than an 8' high 12"x12" stack of lead ingots...

[quail4jake]

I'm new at the scatter gun game. 00 buck is the goal. Sourcing proper load data is mind numbing for me. This is partially due to scant supply availability, made worse by incomplete data sources. Every source I find lists only very specific recipes. Right now, I'm working with new Fiocchi hulls, or once fired Gold Medals and Win AA's. Powders - Unique, Longshot, and H Universal. Wads to include, MG42, Original Brush Wads, WAA12, 12S3, Verslite.

I'm doing my shopping at Ballistic Products. Already have their Buckshot "manual", which was near useless. Found one recipe and it patterned minute of barn door.

I would love to hear what wads you guys prefer for 00 buck loads. Would love some recipes, but I know most guys don't like providing them.

OK, reality check....the original question here is "what are your favorite wads for 00 buck loads?". Short answer: Giulandi MG42. Caveat: 00 buck does not fit in the MG42. The devil is in the details and as we've already discussed buckshot simply is not as stated and it really matters. So, then here's the administrative question...is this the right thread to elucidate all these microfacts or is there a more appropriate thread to present all of this and hopefully help others who would like to load 12 bore 2 3/4" moderate buckshot loads both smokeless and blackpowder? Centershot or anyone else interested, I need your advice as I don't want to do something inappropriate here. And remember this thread will now disappear since I'm apparently on someone's ignore list... thanks, let me know if you get this.

[centershot]

quail4jake,
You can always start a new thread, if it disappears give No.1 a shout (PM) to inquire.

[quail4jake]

That's a great idea, I will contact No.1 to inquire. I will post just those items relevant to the original question here and maybe we can continue on another thread about all the rest.
There are alot of wad combos I've found but haven't tried yet, this is a summary of some of those that seem worthwhile:

and more, focusing on the MG42. Notice the shot size combos used to make weight and the loads using No.8 and No.4 fine shot to make weight:

This is a table of stacking and fit with weights of combos that just make it to the top of the shot cup. These are stacked in Federal GM hull sleeve:

This is published and actual shot sizes. Look at the top line, it's all BPI nickel plated buckshot. Sizes on the top of the line are published weights and sizes on the bottom of the line are actual weights. Note also diameters:
This is load development using Fiocchi hull and primer, MG42 with wad mica, 12 pellets 0B and 12 pellets of 4 fine shot to make 600 gr = 1 3/8 oz. This is a load published by BPI rated at 10,800 psi @ 1340 fps using 30 gr of Longshot. I reduced the dose of Longshot slightly below what was published to achieve lower MV, recoil and presumed pressure. Although my results were clean burning, reasonably consistent, no bloopers and was tested at -20 degrees F it is still a load outside of published data and I do not recommend anyone loading or using it. These were fired at 40 yards, Remington 870 mod. choke, target was 16" x 20" "hit zone" that we were using at the time, it's OK...more relevant than the old 30" circle but not as good as the deer silhouette (we'll get to that):
This is the updated way of doin' things 'round here. This is black powder loads fired through Fox CE .685/.685, somewhere lost on a clipboard is the same kind of chart using smokeless and MG42 wad. I will send it along when found. these targets are fired as composites of 4 rounds each which is why pellet numbers are way higher than what's in each load. Divide by 4...get it? We did this to limit the sheer number of target changes and aggregate scoring and it's the hit % that counts, we're just trying to up the n number while saving staples I suppose:
This is the templates that we use to make the deer targets:
This is the deer target; notice that the vitals, brain/cord are traced in pencil so that they can be scored but not easily seen when fired upon. My boys won't let me fire buckshot at a 30" conventional target anymore, citing a waste of resources but I have some shells squirreled away and I'm gonna pop a few off just as an act of rebellion!:
And the final product, nitro and black powder. A few kills with both so far but all at close range so the real "pudding proof" is still on hoof!:
Lastly, this is how we store low volume shot. This gives you the weights and diameters, notice the re label on the 0B...it is because when we ordered more 0B NP from BPI the weight and diameter was very different. See what I mean?:
OK, enough for now. Centershot, thanks again! Looking forward to a new thread all about this stuff!