Lead composition in Layman’s terms

[cdschoonie]

I’m very new to casting, had a couple molds given to me, I have a good amount of lead, so I thought I’d give it a shot. The info out there, I’m sure is easy to understand to you all, but it’s Greek to me. On hand, I have probably 150 lbs. of pure lead and around 100 lbs. in tire weights. My question is, can I cast bullets with pure lead? Pure tire weights? Is there something I need to add to one or both of them that is easily found? I’m wanting to pour up a bunch of ingots, so when I get days to cast, I can just toss some in and get after it. I live in a small town, 40 miles from OKC, so I’m limited to Walmart, Atwood’s, and Ace Hardware without having to drive that far, unless it’s something I could easily order from say Amazon.
Thank you for any advice.

[Rcmaveric]

You can use pure clip on tire weights. I prefer to use range scraps or 50/50 clip ons to pure lead (stick ons).

Tin is option. I order it from roto metals. But i save it when i am casting and get stubborn casting session. Toss in 2% tin to the pot and take a breather and release the frustrations. Then try again.

I do cast pure but thats for my muzzle loader and 12G slugs. Those are designed to be pure lead. A lot of black powder bullet molds are designed for pure lead as well. Majority of molds are designed for Lyman #2. Custom molds can be ordered designed for your alloy.

In a basic nutshell. Lead is the base metal and its easily deformed without fracturing or cracking. Thats a characteristic scientificly called plasticity. Now to that we add doping metals to change those characteristics. When you add tin to lead it slightly hardens because tin is harder, an odd affect occurs and the surface tension and melt temperature drops. Works in our favor because less surface tension the more detailed pretty bullets we get. We typical add 2% because thats the most beneficial gain. It has a diminishing return and more isnt economical. Old timers used to us 20 part lead to to 10 parts tin. So moving to the 21st century and cheap skates come antimony. Antimony is cheap and a small amount drastically alters the hardness of lead. Antimony also has the added benefit of self lubrication and is why swagers and bullet cores have a standard 1 to 2 percent antimony. Swage (pressure form) a pure bullet core and you have a higher chance of sticking a bullet in the dies. Next we grain boundary modifiers. They just alter how the metal crystals grow primary one used is arsenic and it also increases surface tension. Usefull in shot making for dropping round shot. Also highly usefull in heating treating for extra cheap hardness. Selenium and sulfur can also be used by with less effective. Actually selenium has equal effectiveness but its stupid expensive (tech industries and vitamin industry).

Other topics include different ways of hardening. This dives into the science and voodoo aspect of metalurgy. Copper is used to harden lead but it works at the atomic level. Its called compressive hardening and it increases toughness also. Zinc may have the same effect but its hard to find literature on that and most bullet casters curse zinc existence like the salom witch trials.

I can go deepee if you want or if there are more topics that peeked tour curiosity.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

[Rcmaveric]

Personally i dont focus on the actual content of my lead. I focus on BHN. I mix and match BHN with simple mixing cross. Google it, looks like tic tac toe but accurately tells how much of two different BHN metals to mix for a targeted BHN.

I save the mad science metallurgy for when i get board and need a new project.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

[dbosman]

Can one cast boolits or bullets from pure lead? Yes. It may be difficult to get full mold fill.
Should one cast using pure lead? When even 1% tin can make a much better bullet, probably not.
COW or clip on wheel weights make great bullets for pistol or lower velocity rifle bullets. COW is getting scarce so many are cutting it with an equal weight of pure lead.
As to what should you use, reading, answers here and this free resource, "From Ingot to Target" which you can download as a PDF file from http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm
What I keep in mind is that Elmer Keith, arguably the father of the .44 magnum, used a 16/1 lead/tin alloy for his load development, target and hunting load.

[cdschoonie]

Thank you all for taking time to reply, I feel I can get started with the advice here!

[mdi]

A Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook would help a lot (I prefer the 3rd Edition, but the 4th will do). Like Rcmaveric, I just use BHN as I just air cool all my cast boolits, no need for chemicals for water drop or heat treating. I have been casting for a while an have wound up with a lot of my "Mystery Metal". I started out with wheel weights and when they became evil monsters in CA I started using range lead. Many years later I have wound up with a mixture of my scrap that runs 10-11 BHN which works quite well for all my cast needs except my rifle calibers. I can "adjust" the BHN of a batch with either pure to soften a bit, or if I want harder I can add some linotype. I have purchased alloys/components to mix up some Lyman #2, but that's not needed much anymore and I have about 40-50 lbs of ingots in my shop (I found Lyman #2 to work well in 2 of my 9mm pistols).

[fredj338]

For most pistol shooting, straight clip ww will be fine. Pure lead might be ok for low pressure stuff but really needs to be harder. If you mix the pure 1-3 with the clip ww it will be a pretty decent alloy for most handgun needs.

[kevin c]

All good advice above.

As pointed out, for pistol velocities, straight COWW or the same cut with pure lead works, with the softer alloys still more than serviceable without leading if fit to the barrel or coated. Rifle I don't cast for, but I understand that a harder/ tougher allow is recommended.

Do you have raw wheel weights? In some parts of the US there are more and more zinc weights, which, in high enough concentration, really mess up castability if melted into the alloy. It's worth sorting your stash to be sure. If already in ingot form, a drop of muriatic acid will bubble up if zinc is present.

[cdschoonie]

All good advice above.

As pointed out, for pistol velocities, straight COWW or the same cut with pure lead works, with the softer alloys still more than serviceable without leading if fit to the barrel or coated. Rifle I don't cast for, but I understand that a harder/ tougher allow is recommended.

Do you have raw wheel weights? In some parts of the US there are more and more zinc weights, which, in high enough concentration, really mess up castability if melted into the alloy. It's worth sorting your stash to be sure. If already in ingot form, a drop of muriatic acid will bubble up if zinc is present.

The WW I have are already ingots, I’ve read that if I keep the temp below 700, the zinc will float and not melt?
Also, most of the cartridges I’m casting for, are 45C for my Marlin lever. I look at these as only rifle loads. But they are still lower velocities and pressure than rifles, even my 45-70. Knowing that the 45C cartridges are faster in the rifle than the same in a pistol, I’m assuming that the leading can be an issue in my Marlin, do I need to treat them as rifle and make them harder? As opposed to the softer ones, which is said here I could shoot out of a pistol?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

cdschoonie,
welcome to the forum.

Making ingots:
I would highly recommend you keep your different alloys separate from each other, then blend them at time of casting or a time when you know exactly what works for your applications, you can blend large batches for uniformity.

with that said,
45colt loads (rifle or pistol) are low pressure loads, so a softer alloy is recommended. I like to blend COWW (clip On wheel weights) with Pure (or near pure) Lead, like a 50-50 blend. which will get you a alloy hardness of about 8 or 9 BHN.

Also, 45-70 can be loaded fairly hot or fairly mild. I use the 50-50 in my mild loads of 45-70, but if you are loading to "Ruger" levels, you'll want to use COWW straight...and maybe even heat treat them, to gain a bit of hardness.

As to Lead fouling,
that has more to do with boolit size (fitment to barrel and chamber). a undersized bullet will lead foul a barrel if it is too hard to obturate (expand under chamber pressure). Marlin leverguns with micro-groove barrels are typically oversized, so if you cast a standard size boolit, you'll likely have some Leading issues, but if the alloy used is soft enough to obturate, sometimes you can get by with a undersized boolit.

Good Luck...and keep reading.

[cdschoonie]

cdschoonie,
welcome to the forum.

Making ingots:
I would highly recommend you keep your different alloys separate from each other, then blend them at time of casting or a time when you know exactly what works for your applications, you can blend large batches for uniformity.

with that said,
45colt loads (rifle or pistol) are low pressure loads, so a softer alloy is recommended. I like to blend COWW (clip On wheel weights) with Pure (or near pure) Lead, like a 50-50 blend. which will get you a alloy hardness of about 8 or 9 BHN.

Also, 45-70 can be loaded fairly hot or fairly mild. I use the 50-50 in my mild loads of 45-70, but if you are loading to "Ruger" levels, you'll want to use COWW straight...and maybe even heat treat them, to gain a bit of hardness.

As to Lead fouling,
that has more to do with boolit size (fitment to barrel and chamber). a undersized bullet will lead foul a barrel if it is too hard to obturate (expand under chamber pressure). Marlin leverguns with micro-groove barrels are typically oversized, so if you cast a standard size boolit, you'll likely have some Leading issues, but if the alloy used is soft enough to obturate, sometimes you can get by with a undersized boolit.

Good Luck...and keep reading.

You mention ‘heat treating’, is dropping straight into a bucket of water sufficient treatment?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

You mention ‘heat treating’, is dropping straight into a bucket of water sufficient treatment?

"dropping straight into a bucket of water" is better known as "Water Dropped", as opposed to Air-Cooled. It can be sufficient, but if the variables are not closely governed, you'll get a wide variation of hardness from one boolit to the next.

The term "Heat Treating" refers to the process of Oven heating, then water quenching. It is much easier to control the variables. which are boolit temperature and water temperature.
http://www.lasc.us/HeatTreat.htm

[cdschoonie]

Thank you for all the info, I’m going to check it out!

[jsizemore]

You got to have antimony mixed with the lead to heat treat/ water drop. The arsenic makes it happen faster

[gwpercle]

Alloy can be quite confusing . Here is what Elmer Keith used and published in his book "Sixgun Cartriges & Loads" in the chapters on casting and bullets . Evidently he didn't have access to wheel weights , so used simple tin / lead alloy for all his loads ... even the 44 magnum.
the ratio are in "parts" which I believe are weight by pound . The ratio of tin to lead is the important thing ... if you have a 20# pot and you want 1/20 mix , put in 1/2 lb. tin and 10 lbs lead . Or get a bigger pot and make ingots ...mark them well .
i.e. 1 pound tin / 20 pounds lead would be a 1 / 20 alloy.

TIN / LEAD
1 / 20 - For most revolver , light and normal pressure loads , up to a velocity of -1,000 fps.
1 / 16 - Heavy and magnum loads @ or above +1,000 fps .
1 / 10 - Auto pistol and rifle

Elmer did not believe in the use of gas checks or water dropping his handgun boolits .
I notice you have a lot of scrap lead , getting wheel weights is getting harder all the time so I thought a simple tin / lead alloy might be useful . I think tin is still allowed ... I used to get it in 50/50 bar solder ... a quick check showed tin ingots are available for casting .

Elmer Keiths reloading book has been reprinted and at amazon for $10.00 ... worth the cost just for the chapters on bullets and casting .
Gary

[kevin c]

The WW I have are already ingots, I’ve read that if I keep the temp below 700, the zinc will float and not melt?

Solid zinc will float on molten lead, so reportedly heating a bunch of wheel weights above lead melting temp but below zinc melting temp would melt the lead ones and let the still solid zinc weights float to the top to be skimmed out. I've never done it myself though. Also, if starting with ingots of zinc mixed with lead, the zinc really doesn't separate enough once melted to be removed. I've read here about chemical means for cleaning zinc out of lead alloy, but I get the impression that most folks will just mix the contaminated alloy with enough other alloy to dilute the zinc down so that the new mix casts satisfactorily.

[243winxb]

Add linotype.

[mdi]

FWIW; 50-50, pure-wheel weight is what I used early in my casting to stretch my alloy. I had access to wheel weights through my job and pure was easy to find. With a decent lube and proper fit I could push my 429421 to roughly 1,200 fps in three revolvers cleanly (no/minimal leading)...

Alloying bullet alloy can make you crazy or provide a lot of fun. Arsenic, tin, antimony are probably the most common additions to pure lead for heat treating/water dropping, and can change as cast weight and diameter. There is a ton of info out there and home experimenting can be loads of fun, but for a beginner with ingots of wheel weight alloy, I'd suggest use the WW alloy to refine the casting/sizing/lubing process (or maybe add some pure to stretch the WW)...

A bunch of good, real life info here; https://castboolits.gunloads.com/for...nd-Lead-Alloys