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View Poll Results: What is the best mould material?

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  • Brass

    176 27.76%
  • Iron

    296 46.69%
  • Aluminum

    137 21.61%
  • Something I missed?

    25 3.94%
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Thread: Poll: Best mould material

  1. #41
    Boolit Grand Master JIMinPHX's Avatar
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    1000 series aluminum is gooy to machine & sticks to tools badly. Electrical aluminum is like that. Some of the aircraft grades like 6061 & 7075 are much better to machine & finish well. I'm currently making my first set of homemade blocks out of some 6061 T6. You can check back on my thread in a week or two to see how that worked out for me.
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=45741

    6061 is a little tougher than the softer grades of aluminum & produces chips that are easier to handle. You do still need a little cutting lube, but it's not bad to work with at all. It cuts best with sharp tools that have a very positive clearance angle on them. Heavy feed rates work best for roughing. Slow feed rates & high spindle speeds are best for finishing.

    If you are going to machine brass, keep the clearance angles on your tools shallow. Copper alloys love to suck a tool in & destroy the part if you let them. Other than that, free machining brass is generally pretty nice to cut. Be aware of the heat treat you get with brass. Half hard brass is more than a little tough. Full hard brass is just what it sounds like.

    McMaster Carr is a good place to get small quantities of aluminum, brass or steel. They may even have low carbon ground steel stock in the size that you are looking for. I think that they may even have Starret brand. That stuff is first class precision material.
    “an armed society is a polite society.”
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    Publius Tacitus

  2. #42
    Boolit Buddy
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    Durabar cast iron in grade 65-45-12 gets my vote. The downsidfe is it will rust. The best bet is to keep the mold is a VCI bag to prevent corrosion. It machines easily, and is inclusion free. Some cast Iron has hard spots, and sand pockets. The black dust clears easily from tools, and does not mar thew cavity like continuous chips. Steel and Aluminum will form continous chips, unless the garde is leaded. like 12L17. My biggest gripe with Aluminum is the expansion on the alignment pins, and the lack of wear resistance. You need to be careful when closing the mold in Aluminum, as rough handling damages the alignment surfaces.
    Greg

  3. #43
    Boolit Master




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    Call me a bit of a Paranoid Extremist, but anything that should/must be kept in a hermetically sealed bag worries me.

    I really like my 358156, but if it came down to TETOWAWKI I'd rather have it in Brass or Aluminium...
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  4. #44
    Boolit Buddy
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    Back in post # 36, ATR speaks on block distortion.

    I'n my experience with commercially made moulds, the Lyman's seem to have the most propensity for warpage. My take on that is that it is due to a couple of their design factors, dating back to their IDEAL days. The trouble started after they introduced removeable blocks. A great idea, in and of itself. However, the small block size, coupled with proportionately large handle slots and over-tightening of the fillister head handle attachment screw design may have caused more warpage than any other means usually attributed to operator error. The hot Lyman mould blocks will tend to pull apart at top and bottom if the screws are overtightened. Cranking down really hard with a screwdriver tends to try and pull the handle slot together, and especially so with a hot mould. This can result in blocks that show "light" at the top and/or bottom edges of the mould where the faces come together. This can be checked on individual block halves with a precision straightedge. Lyman recently switched to larger blocks for many of their designs, along with the badly needed thicker sprue plates they now supply. Don't know if they even offer the small single cavity blocks any longer. Commercially, my first mould maker choice is usually either RCBS or Saeco. There are some Lyman bullet designs that one simply cannot live without, so I go that route when all else fails. The old Saeco handle attachment design is probably the best one available. Puttin the threads on the top ends of the pins and free floating the bottom halves means zero chance of block distortion. Both the Saeco's & RCBS larger mould mass help an awful lot to prevent hot block warpage too as their handle slot cutouts comprise a smaller % of total block mass, at least when compared to the Lyman's. The RCBS handle attachment method is OK, but not as good a method as Saeco's. RCBS puts the threads on the bottom of their pins. Think "jack screw" here. However, the larger RCBS block mass precludes much in the way of block warpage. That, plus it may be next to impossible to apply that much pressure with a 3/32" allen wrench!

    Sorry for the long-winded, rambling, and somewhat belated reply. I don't write in much, but find it can be hard to stop once I get a head of steam up. Jimofaz

  5. #45
    Boolit Master


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    Jim,

    You make a good point. I'll remember it, if I ever get that far.


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    (I think, therefore I'm armed.)

  6. #46
    Boolit Master



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    Wow! Nearly twenty per-cent favor aluminum but nobody seems to speak up for it other than cost.

    I LIKE my Lee six holers. they're light, heat fast and make great boolits. They don't rust and the stainless alignment pins and sockets seem to work satisfactorily. I don't dribble my molds on the floor like a basketball so I can't speak to their ruggedness.
    Marty-hiding out in the hills.

  7. #47
    Boolit Grand Master JIMinPHX's Avatar
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    I like aluminum because it doesn't weight much.
    “an armed society is a polite society.”
    Robert A. Heinlein

    "Idque apud imperitos humanitas vocabatur, cum pars servitutis esset."
    Publius Tacitus

  8. #48
    anachronism
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    My LBT moulds are my best producers. I can tell you without reservation, that I have learned to loathe brass moulds.

  9. #49
    Boolit Lady tommygirlMT's Avatar
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    By the way --- Lee will sell you blanks. They have everything but the cavities cut in them --- so they are not completely plain blocks.

    I've only ever seen the 6-banger type blanks from Lee. My man, turbo1889, managed to fanagle a few out of them and he used his drill press to make himself some swaging core molds out of them.

    As far as mold materials --- There is a couple grades of Stainless Steel that are "hot-rolled" and are a non-galling alloy mix intended for stuff like drive shafts and bearing blocks. If I could get any material I wanted for mold blocks that's what I'd want. And make the alignment pins, sprue plate, and hardware out of cobalt alloy.

    In the mean-time I prefer brass for everything but the molds that have to be run hot and for those I prefer iron. I'll use aluminum, but it's not prefered --- If I could magically turn all my aluminum molds into either brass or iron at my prefrence I most definently would.

    Cap'n Morgan, do I understand the picture correctly? Is that a steel mold that's electro-gold plated for no rust?

  10. #50
    Boolit Grand Master



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    I wrote my post on this subject nearly a year ago. Since then, I have had an opportunity to use MiHec's six cavity aluminum moulds as well as NOE's five cavity aluminum moulds.

    I had mentioned that my favorite moulds were H&G iron moulds. That still holds if the mould is a four cavity.

    However, I NEED as many cavities as possible for handguns. Production is the aim, right after precision. My six cavity H&G #251 is too dern heavy for a fat old man to use with comfort. It just flat wears me out (it weighs nearly five lbs.). The MiHec six cavity and NOE five cavity aluminum moulds are a delight to use and produce LOTS of precision bullets.

    So, for handguns, I would have to, NOW, vote for aluminum.

    The Aluminum that NOE and MiHec use are WAY better than Lee's. However, to be fair, Lee's still represent a good value for the financially challenged if Lee offers a bullet design you can use.

    I have used a borrowed MiHec two cavity Cramer style brass hollow point mould and I flat love it for H.P.'s. You can get decent production (for a hollow point) and I have one ordered from MiHec in the H&G #503 configuration (.44 caliber Keith 250 gr bullet). I already have one of his six cavity bullet moulds in the #503 - it is a treasure!

    So, I guess I have modified my stance on mould material. If I were a gorilla, then a six cavity iron mould would be fine. Since I am NOT, then I HAVE to favor aluminum in the six cavity design.

    Further, for hollow point moulds, MiHec's brass two cavity Cramer Style have a place of their own - absolutely beyond first rate!

    We are living in the "Good old days" NOW!!

    FWIW
    Dale53
    Last edited by Dale53; 02-17-2010 at 09:55 PM. Reason: Added information

  11. #51
    Boolit Master

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    Guess I'll chime in since this thread has been revived. Most of my molds are RCBS & Lyman iron and I have no complaints. I have many Lees but only due to cost. If treated carefully they are fine but not for heavy high volume use. My favorite is the CBE brass mold for the 50 BMG. Maybe it's just the quality machining, but I voted brass.

    Bob

  12. #52
    Boolit Master Marlin Hunter's Avatar
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    I only have aluminum molds, so I can't really vote on which is better.

    Silicone bronze or aluminum bronze might be good for a mold, but it would be very expensive. It is light and strong and doesn't rust.
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  13. #53
    Boolit Master Marlin Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap'n Morgan View Post
    The dense micro-grain graphite used for EDM sinking could no doubt be used for mold material, but apart from the obvious strength problem I'm not sure if it would be an advantage with a poor heat conduction material, at all. On one hand the mold would take longer before becoming too hot, on the other hand the bullets would also take longer to solidify.

    POCO 3 would probably be best, but the sprue plate would wear it out rather quickly. And Graphite does get hot, and it takes a long time to cool down. I use to run EDM machines.
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    Do not fear the enemy, for your enemy can only take your life. It is far better that you fear the media, for they will steal your honor. That awful power, the public opinion of a nation, is created in America by a horde of ignorant, self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditching and shoemaking and fetched up in journalism on their way to the poorhouse. Mark Twain

  14. #54
    Boolit Master Cap'n Morgan's Avatar
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    Graphite would probably be just the ticket for those werewolf-slayer silver-boolits we keep reading about on this forum.
    Cap'n Morgan

  15. #55
    Boolit Lady tommygirlMT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap'n Morgan View Post
    Graphite would probably be just the ticket for those werewolf-slayer silver-boolits we keep reading about on this forum.
    For those who are interested --- here is a link to the best source of info on castign silver bullets I have come across on the web:

    http://www.patriciabriggs.com/books/...rbullets.shtml

  16. #56
    Boolit Buddy
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    Mold material

    I have no experience with brass.That being said I like iron better than aluminum because it seems easier to get up and running.I have some nice aluminum molds but they just seem harder to work with.

  17. #57
    Boolit Master Cap'n Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommygirlMT View Post

    Cap'n Morgan, do I understand the picture correctly? Is that a steel mold that's electro-gold plated for no rust?
    No, it's just a plain ol' brass mold, but the plating idea doesn't sound too far off, actually. Plating for tooling and pressure casting molds has become a science the last few decades, using all kinds of exotic materials.
    Cap'n Morgan

  18. #58
    Boolit Master


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    Huh. Three to one against both brass & aluminum.

    Nonetheless, if I ever do get to making some I'll use brass because if nothing else I can't find even somewhat precision iron blocks of the right size and shape.


    Cat
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  19. #59
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bent Ramrod View Post
    Brass. Holds heat more like iron, resists rust more like aluminum. Haven't had a lot of experience with brass moulds but those I've worked with seem to have all the advantages.

    I thought I checked the "brass" button; will try again.
    Me too. I have always used iron or aluminum until my Mihec mold came in. I love the bullets it casts & it doesn't rust.

  20. #60
    Boolit Buddy jbc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap'n Morgan View Post
    The dense micro-grain graphite used for EDM sinking could no doubt be used for mold material, but apart from the obvious strength problem I'm not sure if it would be an advantage with a poor heat conduction material, at all. On one hand the mold would take longer before becoming too hot, on the other hand the bullets would also take longer to solidify.

    The best[TM] solution would probably be a mold made of a material like Beryllium copper, which has extremely good thermal conductivity, and then keep the mold at an even temperature by hooking it up to a circulation system.
    Boy capt'n you really got me thinking now. I've been running two chamilles roboform 20 cnc edm's for almost 16 years now and we have piles and piles of poco3 and even quite a bit of edmc3 copper impregnated graphite laying around. Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to go through an apprenticeship when I started, I just started out in my specialty(edm) so I don't have a clue about cnc mill programming/operating (my edm's use proform programming instead of g-code) but maybe I could talk one of our cnc guys into milling me out a simple mold of c3 graphite to give it a try. My biggest concern is that it will be way too fragile(not that I have ever dropped a trode on the floor

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check