What's so special about a "Keith" boolit ?

[greenjoytj]

RCBS BULLET MOULD .45-255-SWC 424 and the design tweaked version RCBS .45-270-SAA 424 are supposed to be very good bullets. I might buy one of these after a little more research.
I don’t know if a SWC will feed smoothly into a Win M73 rifle. I can’t imagine they’ll just drop into the chambers of my Ruger New Vaquero’s without snagging on the chamber edge.

My only experience with a SWC design bullet is with some commercial cast for 357 Mag.
The SWC lip that is responsible for cutting nice clean holes in the target paper gave me fits trying to load them into the cylinder of S&W 686. That paper cutting lip would snag on the chamber edge every time whether I loaded singly or jiggled 6 in a speed loader.

Lesson learned from loading my 357, for my 45 Colt cartridges I prefer to cast a smooth feeding RNFP, I don’t care that they tear a ragged hole in the paper target.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The boolit was designed by Elmer Keith, anyone with a name like Elmer Keith who wore a 10 Gallon Hat everyday, had to know what he was doing.

I tend to listen to them that knows. Since he wrote the book on Sixgun shooting I figured he knew.

Plus that he reminded me of Foghorn Leghorn, and I would have gotten along with him famously.
Everytime I read something by him I can still hear his voice!

Randy

[Burnt Fingers]

http://arsenalmolds.com/products?pro...d=94&limit=100

I've got that one for my 327 FM.

[robertbank]

I love old Elmer. He did quite a lot of hunting here in Canada and specifically NE BC and NW Alberta. Elmer did a lot of things in his life and history has the proof. One bit of poetic license I did run across was his tale of shooting a deer taking out 4" of the spine. He then went on to say the deer ran some distance - if I remember right it was around 100 yards. That just could not happen. Blow out the spinal cord of any mammal and nothing moves downstream of the cut. Just a case of poetic license.

If you have not read "Hell I Was There" by Elmer you should it is a great read.

As a teen I read his column in Guns & Ammo with enthusiasm. He had something to say and do and he did. Enough said.

I have been shooting his designs in my revolvers for 30 years. They perform as he says they would within the limits of my erratic skill level. It is the shooter not the gun....

Take Care

Bob

[trapper9260]

http://arsenalmolds.com/products?pro...d=94&limit=100

I've got that one for my 327 FM.

That is a interesting mold. it can be used in 30 cal also when sized, thanks for the link

[racepres]

RCBS BULLET MOULD .45-255-SWC 424 and the design tweaked version RCBS .45-270-SAA 424 are supposed to be very good bullets. I might buy one of these after a little more research.
I don’t know if a SWC will feed smoothly into a Win M73 rifle. I can’t imagine they’ll just drop into the chambers of my Ruger New Vaquero’s without snagging on the chamber edge.

My only experience with a SWC design bullet is with some commercial cast for 357 Mag.
The SWC lip that is responsible for cutting nice clean holes in the target paper gave me fits trying to load them into the cylinder of S&W 686. That paper cutting lip would snag on the chamber edge every time whether I loaded singly or jiggled 6 in a speed loader.

Lesson learned from loading my 357, for my 45 Colt cartridges I prefer to cast a smooth feeding RNFP, I don’t care that they tear a ragged hole in the paper target.

well said

[hc18flyer]

RCBS BULLET MOULD .45-255-SWC 424 and the design tweaked version RCBS .45-270-SAA 424 are supposed to be very good bullets. I might buy one of these after a little more research.
I don’t know if a SWC will feed smoothly into a Win M73 rifle. I can’t imagine they’ll just drop into the chambers of my Ruger New Vaquero’s without snagging on the chamber edge.

My only experience with a SWC design bullet is with some commercial cast for 357 Mag.
The SWC lip that is responsible for cutting nice clean holes in the target paper gave me fits trying to load them into the cylinder of S&W 686. That paper cutting lip would snag on the chamber edge every time whether I loaded singly or jiggled 6 in a speed loader.

Lesson learned from loading my 357, for my 45 Colt cartridges I prefer to cast a smooth feeding RNFP, I don’t care that they tear a ragged hole in the paper target.

I have both the 45-255 and 270SAA, and I honestly haven't noticed that issue with my Ruger Blackhawk. I have 3 different rnfp molds as well for my .45. hc18flyer

[Tar Heel]

Due to its meplat and front driving band, it KILLS game and raging cattle very effectively. That was incredibly important for a working cow poke and hunter. His design was based on field experience - not theory. The bullet is a proven game taker. Every hog and deer I nailed with a KTSWC in 41 or 45 Caliber was a one-shot drop.

If you haven't read his books, they are a great source of first-hand information about the life of a cow poke, the hardships endured in the time period (without complaint), the drive of a man to care for his family, and the absolute working knowledge of handguns and their projectiles. While his prose can be a tad gruff at times, he speaks to us from the time - when men were men and a foul mouth was not tolerated.

Find yourself a copy of "Sixguns" and "Hell - I was There" and have a good read!

[waksupi]

I love old Elmer. He did quite a lot of hunting here in Canada and specifically NE BC and NW Alberta. Elmer did a lot of things in his life and history has the proof. One bit of poetic license I did run across was his tale of shooting a deer taking out 4" of the spine. He then went on to say the deer ran some distance - if I remember right it was around 100 yards. That just could not happen. Blow out the spinal cord of any mammal and nothing moves downstream of the cut. Just a case of poetic license.

If you have not read "Hell I Was There" by Elmer you should it is a great read.

As a teen I read his column in Guns & Ammo with enthusiasm. He had something to say and do and he did. Enough said.

I have been shooting his designs in my revolvers for 30 years. They perform as he says they would within the limits of my erratic skill level. It is the shooter not the gun....

Take Care

Bob

I would have thought that too, until last fall. I shot a buck at an uphill angle, and didn't hold low enough. He rolled down the hill, and before I got to him, he was back on his feet struggling back up the hill. Two vertebra were completely destroyed.

[Burnt Fingers]

That is a interesting mold. it can be used in 30 cal also when sized, thanks for the link

You're welcome. I never thought of using it in 30 cal.

[robertbank]

I would have thought that too, until last fall. I shot a buck at an uphill angle, and didn't hold low enough. He rolled down the hill, and before I got to him, he was back on his feet struggling back up the hill. Two vertebra were completely destroyed.

Yes but the hind legs were not moving. Had a similar experience in Alberta several years ago. Shot the deer just back of the shoulders through the spine. Deer was pulling itself with it's two front legs until I ended his struggles with a .357 in his ear.

Take Care

Bob

[dahermit]

Due to its meplat and front driving band, it KILLS game and raging cattle very effectively.

Explain please, how the front driving band on the K.T. bullets makes it a better killer of game and cattle.

[robertbank]

Explain please, how the front driving band on the K.T. bullets makes it a better killer of game and cattle.

It cuts a clean hole through veins and tissue, opposed to say a round nose that will push through veins and tissue leaving a tiny hole through the tissue as the round nose simply pushes through the tissue ass opposed to cutting the tissue as it does with the sharp shoulders of the driving band. Look at paper targets when shot with a round nose bullet vs a SWC.

Take Care

Bob

[megasupermagnum]

Explain please, how the front driving band on the K.T. bullets makes it a better killer of game and cattle.

It doesn't. That 100 year old myth has been busted time and time again. What it does do is align the bullet, which is why they are so accurate.

[44MAG#1]

It doesn't. That 100 year old myth has been busted time and time again. What it does do is align the bullet, which is why they are so accurate.

That is true. That error has been disproven by Ross Seyfried and many others since. Still the much varied "Keith" is a bullet that is hard to beat overall. I like it alot and shoot it probably more in 44 caliber than other designs.

[405grain]

I've been shooting and hunting with the "Keith type" RCBS 44-245-SWC for 40 years. In a super blackhawk it has accounted for both feral pigs and deer. It is accurate enough that I've even used it on ground squirrel hunts. The shoulder on the forward driving band certainly cuts a clean hole in paper targets, but in my experience the mushrooming of the big meplat on game is what really gets the job done.
"Keith type" bullets come in both flat nosed and hollow point. With the deep penetration and good expansion from the standard design I've never felt the need for the hollow point version. I've read where people say that Elmer Keith preferred plain based boolits over gas checked designs. Even though the Boolit I shoot is a plain base, if I were to make the choice over again I'd choose a gas checked SWC because they are more versatile.
I also cast the RCBS 32-98-SWC for use in 32 H&R magnum. Both of these designs put as much of the bullet forward as possible to increase case capacity. To sum it up: in my opinion a Keith design bullet does everything well. Other designs might do one or two things better, but this type of semi-wadcutter does everything really good.

[Walks]

Did you really have to ask ?

Read more, a whole lot more. And not necessarily just Keith's stuff. Most of the more modern gun writer's say pretty much the same thing.
Although lot's of folks like the Wide Flat Nose as brought out by Veral Smith and heavily copied by others.
The WFN does feed better in the Lever Guns liked by so many of Us.
For Me;
SixGun only; Keith.
Rifle and SixGun; WFN.
The Keith does cut a Beautiful hole in the paper.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

My RCBS 250K mold was not a favorite until recently. Never worked very well with tumble lube and powder coating them just seemed wrong. Pan lubing and a soft bhn 10 alloy really woke them up out of my Model 24 over 7 grains of Unique. And wouldn't you know it, that recipe has been tried and true for a very long time. And the mold drops them at .431" so sizing is not needed.

[rockshooter]

Burnt Fingers!
Thanks for the link- http://arsenalmolds.com/products?pro...d=94&limit=100
I just now ordered one for .327. Thought I'd see if I can possibly improve on 311008.
Loren

[Piedmont]

That is true. That error has been disproven by Ross Seyfried and many others since.

The above quote is in reference to the shoulder of a SWC cutting in game. This was not disproven, in my opinion. Ross shot gelatin with sand in it after marking the nose and shoulder with a permanent marker or paint and looking at the bullet for abrasion after the shot. The problem with that is animals aren't made of gelatin. Lots of different material in them including bone and hide. Brian Pearce strongly disagrees with the statement that the shoulder doesn't cut in game. He has written of his observations in dead animals, not gelatin.