Paper Patching...my way.

[Digital Dan]

Charlie, you might want to read Dan Theodore's article on the subject in the most recent edition of BPC News.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

The old mouse pad makes a good boolit rollin' pad.

BvT

[montana_charlie]

Charlie, you might want to read Dan Theodore's article on the subject in the most recent edition of BPC News.

I don't get the BPC News, but much of what I have read was written by Dan Theodore.

Was there some particular tidbit in the News that you think I am in need of?
CM

[longbow]

For any that haven't found this website:

http://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-result...nformation.htm

Several articles by Dan Theodore and others ~ all good stuff!

Longbow

[Lead pot]

Yep; Dan does some purdy Writing.

[montana_charlie]

Rick Kalynuik, aka Red River Rick, a master metal manipulator, just sent an email containing this image.



In 10 to 14 days, I expect it to reach my trembling fingers.

For those who demand detail, it is 1.450" long, with a .450" diameter, and should weigh about 535 grains in 16-1 alloy. It has Theodore's 'Money Bullet' nose which is .700" long and consists of a tangential ogive with a 4 x caliber radius, blending into a .250" sphere (approximately 55% of caliber).

Ballistic Coefficient is said to be about .571 based on dual chronograph readings.

Initial patching will be to .456" with two wraps of 9# Eagle-A Trojan Onionskin (25% rag content).

(It just dawned on me that I don't have handles available for this mould. But, I can 'retire' an NEI mould to free up a KAL Tool pair.)

Rick sure does pretty work, doesn't he?

CM

[docone31]

That is one sweet lookin mold! I sure hope it targets as well as it is made.
Absolute Wowser!
Someday, a dual in .304 for me.

[Digital Dan]

I don't get the BPC News, but much of what I have read was written by Dan Theodore.

Was there some particular tidbit in the News that you think I am in need of?
CM

There's several tidbits actually. You ought to get a subscription to BPC News. The contributors don't always agree with my thoughts (yeah, I'm smiling) but they are all very experienced in the various arts related to Lord Black.

I'm not going to detail the various and many points Dan T. made about competition quality BPCR patched loads, but they conflict somewhat with your approach so far as dimensions are concerned. They are also conflicted with the thoughts expressed in Paul Matthews' book. You certainly can patch to groove but might run into fouling issues. Based on my small experience your dims are good for smokeless, maybe not so good for BP. Good luck with that anyway, hope I'm wrong about that. Have you considered looking around for thicker brass to accommodate your chamber dimensions, thus allowing for thinner patching paper?

[montana_charlie]

Have you considered looking around for thicker brass to accommodate your chamber dimensions, thus allowing for thinner patching paper?

Your question tells me you understand what (I think) I'm trying to accomplish.
I briefly considered the possibility of using thicker brass. The reasons I dropped that line of thinking are twofold.
1- The expense is enough that I would rather just stick to GG bullets.
2- As it stands now, a bullet held in my 'thin walled' brass slides forward into a freebore of the same diameter. The freebore is not particularly long, but it does exist. Then it progresses into a gentle leade where the groove diameter matches the freebore and the case mouth.

To me, this looks like a smooth transition from case to bore.

Thicker brass would need a smaller patched-to diameter, which would then bump up to fill the freebore...and grooves. It seems like an unnecessary dimensional change to put the bullet through.

Do you know who said this?
"Here's a truism that came to me years ago: The more a bullet has to bump-up, the more the base will be distorted."

My original target diameter was .460". I have settled on .456" (for now) because I have two full reams of suitable paper which patches to that size, and bullets so patched slip snugly into fireformed necks. I ordered the mould based on what that paper yields when wrapped.
But, I am keeping one eye open for paper a little bit thicker, in case .460" is a better idea.

I understand what you say about the (fouling) difference between smokeless and BP. Between-shot wiping is the rage right now, and can be resorted to if necessary.
But, I am hoping the slimness of the Money nose will make it possible to fire multiple shots with minimal (or no) fouling crontrol measures.
Bullet seating depth has been calculated to allow for a .125" lube cookie as a nod to BP. It should be enough to keep fouling soft...at least in the throat...and I'll soon find out how much that helps.

You know how a kid with a newly made slingshot goes looking for a stone to shoot? Once he discovers one just the right size, he is off to find a target so he can try it out.

I had a notion of what I thought I wanted to do, and read stuff until I found 'a stone that fit my slingshot'.
It happened to be a post by Dan Theodore in which he was advising a PP newby on bullet and patch selection for a chamber very similar to mine. My final dimensions are not exactly what he specified, but follow the same line of thinking he was using for that discussion. My naked bullet will actually be .004" smaller than what he was recommending...but will fill the chamber in about the same way.

Because Dan T posts under a variety of 'names', I didn't think I could find that discussion. But, because of your comments, I went looking...and found it.
http://www.bpcr.net/forum/viewtopic....d3f4fb3fad7ec8

The shooter may be a 'PP newby' but he's not a neophyte to BPCR. The entity shown as 'twoguns' is (in fact) Arnie Moos. I didn't learn that until well after I sold him a Kal-Max Case Stretching Jig...modified for his 'special needs'.

It has been bullets from a mould of his that I have been using to lay my plans...

CM

[Digital Dan]

Well, hope it works out for you. You might have some luck with the money bullet due to the ogive radius. Do keep us informed of progress.

[renegade]

Hi; I just wanted to throw this out here. I got the "2009 GUN DIGEST" from my local library and they have a couple good(I think so anyways) articles concerning blackpowder cartridges.The article is called" ACCURATE BLACKPOWDER CARTRIDGES-WHAT WORKS- THE SECRET REVEALED" by Markus F.Moll and David J Moses.The article covers,Propellant/Primer,what grain size should be used(sometimes the larger grain say 2F is better since it does'nt pack as tight as 3F therefore the primers flame ignites the charge more consistantly\\ \\Wadding,example,wool&milk carton\\Bullets, as to caliber and twist & style\\Leade/Rifling Profile\\How to wrap the patch\\Interpreting the target\\Barrel profiles,number of lands and depth of grooves from various barrel makers.Another chapter has some good info and history of "Old Reliable" The Sharpes Rifle. It's a good read, you all should check it out if you can.

[Eagle]

I know i am knew to all of this but what is the benefet of paper patching. Do I still have to use lub if I paper patch.

[montana_charlie]

im knew two becuz i haven dun it yet. ill let 45 2.1 hanel this wun.

CM

[docone31]

Paper patching.
Paper allows an insulating layer between the rifleing, and the lead. This changes parasitic friction. The paper becomes an hard layer.
I only have experience with smokeless powder so black powder might be different in this regard.
However, I do not lube my patches. The only lube on them is from the wax I use for sizing them. They are not moist as castings are when lubed.
The largest benefit I have found, is, I do not have to throttle down my loads when I am casting. I can control the size of the projectile through the patch.
When wrapped, the patch becomes an hard, stable jacket.
I have used undersized paper patches to firelap with excellent success also. My Enfield had hammer marks which went away with this process.
Essentially, I get jacketed performance without the fouling from the copper jacket. I can really push my loads without losing accuracy. In fact, I gain over conventional jacketed loads.
I highly reccomend it.

[Eagle]

Thanks docone31. I have been on this site for a while now just reading and absorbing all the info I can. I have bought two molds and hope to start next week with the casting. I think I am going to try the paper before I go to the lube. Is there a certain kind of paper I should use. Or can I just wet down some newspaper and have at it. Thanks again for the help.

[docone31]

I use plain computer paper. The kind I get for the home printers. It works out pretty well for me. I tried Meade Traceing Paper, and I do still use it, although I can use the printer paper and size it down without issue.
I use JPW for the sizing.
I also use Turtle wax for sizing. It depends on what I grab first.

[bobk]

Is the Turtle wax for the slower loads?

Bob K

[docone31]

The Turtle, and JPW is for going through the sizing die.
The ones I do not size, I do not lube.

[montana_charlie]

Is the Turtle wax for the slower loads?

Yup...probably.
And mustache (hare) wax for the fast ones...
CM

[Don McDowell]

MC instead of soaking the paper in water directly , try placing a handful of your precut patches between a couple of soaked cloths, or I have got to using one of the blue shoptowels soaked then the patches spread out and then fold the towel in half. They get wet enough to roll nice and tight, but not so wet as to tear, or take for ever to dry out.