Winchester AA Super-Handicap

[Pirate69]

I have searched the Forum and the Internet and found a few references on the use of this powder in pistol loads. I have found some powder that is available. Anyone have any opinions on its use in 9MM, 38 Special, 40 S&W, $5 ACP, etc? Seems like published loading data is non-existent. Burn rate appears to be almost identical to TrailBoss; but with a higher density.

[tazman]

I went through this same exact thing several years ago during the last shortage when all I could find on the shelves was WSH.
Better to use it as a slightly slower Green Dot or WST. I know from experience that it works well in 9mm and 38 Special. No reason it wouldn't work in 40S&W and 45ACP as well.
Since there is no published data, you will need to work up your own load beginning with a lower charge and building up to the performance you are looking for. Think midrange WST loads for starting out.
A chronograph is your best friend in this.
Take care, be safe, and have fun.

[jim147]

You might give Hodgdon a call. Not sure how it goes these days but back 30 years ago when I lived down the street from them I could walk in and ask a question and they were always helpful.

[dverna]

A chronograph will not tell you if you are at a safe pressure. I would contact Hodgdon as jim147 suggested.

If they will not help, treat it like a known powder of about the same burn rate and keep loads below maximum. If looking at primers for signs of pressure, use Federals as they seem to have the softest cups.

[Pirate69]

Thanks,
If it is still available tomorrow, I may pick-up a pound. $30.50 per pound. Could be worse.

[rintinglen]

The only data I have suggests 2.9-3.2 grains for 870-940 fps in 9mm w/ a 147 FMJ. Because of the paucity of load data, I have never used it.

[Pirate69]

Thanks,
If it is still available tomorrow, I may pick-up a pound. $30.50 per pound. Could be worse.

I am now the proud owner of a pound. Now to put it to work.

[Capt.Red.44]

Found anything out yet regarding if it produced satisfactory results? Same thing happened to me. 2 pounds at my lgs, 20$. Dont know what to do with them yet. I load 9mm, .38spc, .357mag, 44 mag, 45 lc.

[Pirate69]

Check this thread under Military Rifles. Winchester Super Handicap. In a 7.7 Jap rifle, it appears to duplicate RedDot at the 11 grain load range. This is not a suggestion that it be used as RedDot or any other powder at any load range.

[Forrest r]

I can't remember where I got a # of WW SH ,it was several years ago. Never tried it in any pistol or revolver loads, burned it up in a 308w.
[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Those are all 10-shot groups @ 50yds.

Basically I had a # of powder laying around and a bunch of different cast 30cal bullets (20 of these/60 of those/etc.). Never gave testing the ww sh powder any thought in pistols/revolvers.

Good luck

[Pirate69]

Thanks Forrest r,

I have done some work with WSH in a 308 Win also. Used a C309-170-f boolit in a 24" barrel. Shot 5-shot strings over a chrony at 50 yards. These are the results:

Grains------------Avg. Velocity----------Group Size
9----------------------1363-----------------0.8
10---------------------1439-----------------1.0
11---------------------1518-----------------0.9
11.5-------------------1559-----------------2.8
12---------------------1598-----------------1.5
12.5-------------------1643-----------------1.1

We seem to have good agreement with velocities with a 9 grain load. Appears we both were using approximately the same weight boolit.

I am currently trying to develop a load for a 7.7 Jap rifle. Tomorrow I plan to shoot some 13.2 gn WSH loads. Boolit will be a Lyman 314299 at approximately 210 grains. They will be LLA lubed without a GC. I know I can shoot a 13.2 Red Dot PC load without a GC and not get any leading. In a rifle, the WSH seems to be close to RD loads. Velocity should be around 1477 fps. I may be mining lead at the end of the day.

I can't remember where I got a # of WW SH ,it was several years ago. Never tried it in any pistol or revolver loads, burned it up in a 308w.
[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Those are all 10-shot groups @ 50yds.

Basically I had a # of powder laying around and a bunch of different cast 30cal bullets (20 of these/60 of those/etc.). Never gave testing the ww sh powder any thought in pistols/revolvers.

Good luck

[Pirate69]

"I am currently trying to develop a load for a 7.7 Jap rifle. Tomorrow I plan to shoot some 13.2 gn WSH loads. Boolit will be a Lyman 314299 at approximately 210 grains. They will be LLA lubed without a GC. I know I can shoot a 13.2 Red Dot PC load without a GC and not get any leading. In a rifle, the WSH seems to be close to RD loads. Velocity should be around 1477 fps. I may be mining lead at the end of the day."

Well, I shot 20 rounds today and I got leading. I had a heavy coating of LLA on them and did not get a lube star. Will be going back to PC or using a gas check. My mold drops at about 0.3145" and the best I can measure a barrel slugging is 0.315". PC will add a little diameter and the GC should help also.

I did get some good data today anyway. Previous data have indicated WSH acted like Red Dot in several loads. I chronographed the loads today. Shot them in four groups of five to see if the groups opened up, which they did. Using Quickload and the actual boolit weights, boolit length, case volume, QL had previously predicted a 13.2 gn load of Red Dot would generate a velocity of 1477 fps. The average of the chronographed velocities, today, using 13.2 gn of WSH was 1477 fps. I bet I cannot reproduce that again. LOL.

Out of the 20 rounds, there was only one round that had a velocity out of the norm. It was 1423 fps and really elevated the SD for that group. If this value is eliminated, the 19-shot average is 1480 fps with a SD of 6.5. Currently the SD is 14.2. Looks like one low value is responsible for the perfect match with QL.

The WSH seems to be working out better than I expected. Data from today follows:

Group----Average-----SD------Max-----Min
1-----------1477-------6.9-----1488----1468
2-----------1470------23.7-----1485----1423
3-----------1477-------7.0-----1484----1465
4-----------1485-------8.0-----1488----1480

20-shoot---1477-------14.2----1488----1423