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Thread: Need help! Bought pure lead need help mixing for 9mm. ???

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironmike340 View Post
    I live in central Michigan. I am powder coating these. I don’t shoot max, but load for target.
    As for the lead all it says is pure lead fluxed twice. I bought 25 lbs at 1.90 a pound. I’m looking at Toto metal and Lyman is 27 dollars per 5lbs. And if I added 2part pure to 2 part Lyman I would need at least 10lbs. At $27 for 5lbs that’s $80 shipped? That puts me at $130 to load. Not sure if that’s gonna be worth it?
    Also plumbers solder is that really gonna make it hard enough to shoot? If so how much would I need if I wanted to make a ten pound pot? Thanks . Sorry I have so many questions. Just wanna see if I should sell it and buy something else or figure a good way to salvage it.
    Is there something else I should have bought? Ebay is flooded so never know what your getting.
    I see root metal has Linotype bar but do know how much I need of any
    If powder coating shoot it as is and see ,I do for target .Range lead /whatever ,powder coat solves the problem (unless your Elmer Kieth)

  2. #22
    Boolit Master Half Dog's Avatar
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    Which ever route you go, make a few and shoot them. If you don’t like the results, change something and repeat. That sounds like a basic idea but it mitigates the frustration. Don’t ask how I know.
    The sooner I fall behind...the more time I have to catch up with

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironmike340 View Post
    Yeah I understand that. But do you understand I’m new and I got different answers.
    One says just add tin. Another says won’t be hard enough. Another talks about wheel weight.
    If I understood all the hardness stuff the calculator would be a piece of cake. But it just doesn’t seem to mention about Tin helping flow or different kinds of Linotype?
    And I am trying to figure out how to do it or how bad I want it.
    I asked about a couple metals to add. I didn’t ask about wheel weights or antimony. Don’t even know what hardball is? That’s why I was asking to learn more about it. I’ve reloaded for years, casting is new
    I'm aware you're new to casting - I can read just fine. We were all new at some point, and my answers are meant to show you what you need to know as a person getting started with metals for casting.

    Like I said, tin helps the metal flow into the cavities, antimony adds hardness. In brief, you need at least 1% tin for good cavity fill-out (otherwise the bullets come out wrinkled as the lead can't flow well enough) - after that you look at antimony to add hardness.

    If you look on the calculator, you'll see the percentages of each element in each different metal eg. the Hardball I mentioned. If you add 2 different metals together eg. pure lead and, say, linotype, have a look at the bottom of the chart and it'll show you the percentages and the Bhn of the resulting alloy.

    I keep stressing - look at the calculator, it'll answer a lot of your questions once you play with it - and going back to my very first point, bullet fit ie. the right size is key.

    Previously I gave you one mix - Lyman #2 and your pure, now I'm going to give you another: Foundrytype and your pure, 2.5 lbs of Foundry to your 25 lbs of pure which will give you:

    Tin: 1.36% Antimony: 2.09% Lead: 96.5% Weight: 27.5 Bhn: 10.9

    How did I get to that? I sure as hell don't know this off the top of my head, I used the calculator:




    I've just given you the shortest path to what you want/need to know, but I'm getting the impression that your cup is already full.
    Last edited by AndyC; 03-04-2021 at 10:37 PM.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironmike340 View Post
    Yeah I understand that. But do you understand I’m new and I got different answers.
    One says just add tin. Another says won’t be hard enough. Another talks about wheel weight.
    If I understood all the hardness stuff the calculator would be a piece of cake. But it just doesn’t seem to mention about Tin helping flow or different kinds of Linotype?
    And I am trying to figure out how to do it or how bad I want it.
    I asked about a couple metals to add. I didn’t ask about wheel weights or antimony. Don’t even know what hardball is? That’s why I was asking to learn more about it. I’ve reloaded for years, casting is new
    Clip on wheel weights contain a small percentage of Antimony . Antimony is used to harden your alloy but is best if used with a equal amount of tin . Tin makes your alloy flow better for casting as well as more pliable .
    We do not know what your alloy is but 1 -2 percent of tin added to your alloy will make it more pliable and cast better well filled out pliable cast boolits , and 2-3 percent Antimony will make your alloy harder .
    But more importantly then harder alloy , is cast boolits of the right size , being properly loaded without producing a loaded round that has the boolit reduced in diameter - causing horrible leading in the bore as well as bad patterns instead of groups .

  5. #25
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    Ok thank you for explaining it. One question that confuses me? Linotype?
    You mention adding it in last calculation. Are you referring to the bars that roto metal sells that are 84% lead 4 tin and 4 ani? Or the stuff on eBay that has the letters on it and is expensive? Are they different I’m assuming?

  6. #26
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    I was referring to Rotometals and others - they sell actual linotype.

    Story to illustrate: When I was in the same boat as you and starting out to try and blend alloys, I bought the eBay "linotype" and after many struggles I realized that just about all of it was electrotype. It doesn't sound like a big deal but from the calculator:

    Electrotype - Tin: 2.50% Antimony: 2.50% Lead: 95.0%
    Linotype - Tin: 4.00% Antimony: 12.00% Lead: 84.0%

    I was wondering why mixing x-amount of my lead with "linotype" ended up with an alloy far softer than I'd expected - cuz it wasn't lino after all, it was electrotype with far less antimony (therefore a LOT softer - like 9.9 Bhn vs the 12 or so I was expecting).

    Anyway, just be aware that what most sellers on eBay call linotype really isn't - can't really blame them as most won't know the difference (hell, neither did I!) - but it can play merry hell when you're trying to use the calculator to blend X amount of your pure with z-amount of what you think is lino to try and get to a certain hardness.

    Rotometals and the others aren't cheap but at least you get exactly what you were expecting - sometimes you might on eBay too, but caveat emptor and all that.
    Last edited by AndyC; 03-04-2021 at 10:32 PM.
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  7. #27
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    Ok I’m understanding your saying 2.5 lb Lino from roto and 25 lbs of my pure ?
    It confuses me because I had two people tell me I needed 1-1 with my lead and 25 on of Lino bar isn’t cheap and and 25lb of Lino bar to 25 lb lead seemed wrong?

  8. #28
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    Buying one 5lb bar to mix with pure 25 lb I can handle, but when I was told I needed five bars I couldn’t swallow lol

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
    From "Sixgun Cartridges & Loads" by Elmer Keith

    Tin / lead Bullet Alloy :

    1/15 ratio for automatic pistols and magnum loads in revolvers ( good for over 1000 fps )

    1 pound tin + 15 pounds Lead .

    Gary
    I tried to make it as simple as possible . Most give answers that are confusing and complicated .
    Sorry .
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  10. #30
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    Here is the best explanation you can get. Read and look through the sight.

    http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chap...Metallurgy.htm

  11. #31
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    Would I be better off melting all this at once and pouring into ingots or try to do a ten pound pot at a time? Seems would be more consistent doing it all at once?

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironmike340 View Post
    Ok I’m understanding your saying 2.5 lb Lino from roto and 25 lbs of my pure ?
    Not Linotype - 2.5 lbs of Foundrytype and 25 lbs of pure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironmike340 View Post
    It confuses me because I had two people tell me I needed 1-1 with my lead and 25 on of Lino bar isn’t cheap and and 25lb of Lino bar to 25 lb lead seemed wrong?
    Oh, I get it - that's because they wanted to help you get to a very hard 14 Bhn bullet, but that's very expensive (and a waste, if you're shooting it in a 9mm). Well, here are the results my way:



    and then their way:



    You don't need bullets anywhere close to 14 Bhn for a 9mm (as I mentioned, mine are around 9.5 Bhn) - and with my mix you only have to buy one 5 lb bar of Foundrytype (1 x $29.99 or thereabouts) instead of 5x 5lb bars of Linotype ($22 x 5 = $110)

    In addition, you'll only use half the Foundrytype bar too, so you can stash it away for your next smelt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironmike340 View Post
    Would I be better off melting all this at once and pouring into ingots or try to do a ten pound pot at a time? Seems would be more consistent doing it all at once?
    All at once is easier - smelt together your chosen recipe, flux it well and then pour that resulting liquid alloy into ingot moulds of some kind eg. muffin tins - ready to chuck into your bullet-casting pot.
    Last edited by AndyC; 03-05-2021 at 08:04 PM.
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  13. #33
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    I prefer to make "batches", using an old cast iron pot. My batches are about 75 to 100 lbs. So all at once is what I would do.

    The Link Darklin posted (From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners©) is something you should really read. Once you have digested that some of what guys are posting will make more sense.

    When dealing with RotoMetals you can be pretty confident you are getting exactly what you are buying. For example "Hardball" is 2% tin, 6% Antimony, and 92% lead. Lyman #2 is 5% tin, 5% Antimony, and 90% Lead. The advantage of using RotoMetals is you eliminate any "unknown" alloy variables. When first starting to learn to cast any "unknowns" you can eliminate the better. I recommend that any new to casting person that is having problems buy some "known" alloy and work with that for a bit to eliminate alloy as a problem.

    Lyman #2 is an OLD recipe 90% lead 5% tin 5% Antimony. The equal proportions of Tin and Antimony balance. It's estimated hardness is 14.7 from the calculator. Tin and Antimony where much easier to obtain (cheaper) in the 60's and 70's. A lot of guys are using 3% Tin, 3% Antimony, and 94% Lead. This gives you 12.2 hardness from calculator. This should be good for 35000psi loads (9mm 34000 to 36000 psi).

    There is NO this is the only way to do it when it comes to casting. A lot of different things work. Just have to experiment and see what works for you.

  14. #34
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    Once it is mixed, you can not un-mix it. Since you have 25 pounds of pure lead, you might consider making five different batches starting with 5 pounds of pure lead and then add to that some of the other components of alloy. You will not be able to pour the entire contents into molds, but you probably could cast about 100 bullets (2 pounds) and let them age harden for testing. Then drain most but not all of the pot to prevent drawing dross into the valve area which will result in dripping. This way you can test lead and tin blends, lead and Clip on Wheel Weight alloy, lead and linotype alloy. Be careful to mark the different batches so you can then identify and blend those alloys and test cast for performance. That will give you the most different alloy blends with the smallest amount of alloy. Enjoy the journey.

  15. #35
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    If all you have is a 10 lb. pot you could put 1/2 lb tin and 7 1/2 lbs lead ... 8 lbs of alloy in a 10 lb. pot would leave a little room for careful stirring and fluxing .

    You don't really need any type metal , wheel weights or antimony to make up pistol boolits . Elmer Keith and other casters of his time used simple tin-lead alloy and he fired many 44 magnum loads with them . By powder coating ... you should have no problems with your cast boolits .
    Try to keep things simple at first .
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  16. #36
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    I ordered foundry from roto 63.5 24a 12.5 tin 5 lbs of it.

  17. #37
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    What alloy you end up using, remember fit is king, slug your barrel and size .002" over.

  18. #38
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    I'll give you an example of a batch I'm doing today, as I'm running low on casting alloy:



    That's 50 lbs of recovered range lead, 6 lbs of electrotype and 2.4 lbs of 70/30 lead-tin solder - the calculator shows I'll get 58.4 lbs of an alloy of around 10 Bnh and contains over 1.6% tin so it should fill the cavities nicely and be hard enough for my .45s and 9mms:



    By the way, the electrotype was sold to me on eBay as Linotype - but my hardness-tester proves that it's electrotype (only 2.5% antimony instead of the 12% antimony in linotype). I literally just bought another 9 lbs of "Linotype" on eBay today ($35 and free shipping), but I'm pretty sure it'll turn out to be electrotype. I bought it anyway expecting that it is.
    Last edited by AndyC; 03-06-2021 at 07:12 PM.
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  19. #39
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    Wow, you are at the "1+1=2" stage and you are asking for (and getting) answers that are at least Algebra III. You're looking for a basic load, something to shoot nice groups at a target, not casting fire-belching, Hollow point, self defence or hunting loads.

    Alloy is the least important factor in casting boolits for pistols. Provided you haven't got a bunch of zinc in your lead, Fit, temperature of the pot and mold, mold design, proper expansion of the case mouth, proper seating: all will impact your product more than the specific concentration of elements in your pot.

    Before you spend any money ordering type metal, or buying a hardness tester, cast up 50 boolits w/ your existing alloy. Inspect and sort out the best 25. Size them to the largest diameter that fits your barrel's chamber--or .357, if you only have one sizer. And load up three. Do a plunk test (Remove the barrel from the frame and slide and drop the loaded cartridge into the chamber, it should drop in until it hits the shelf in the chamber that sets the head space.) If this works, hurray. Load up the rest of your 25, head out to the range. And shoot them. Strive to aim and squeeze to the best of your ability. Did your round pass the plunk test? Do the results meet your standards/needs? Is there leading in the barrel? If the answers are "yes," "yes," and "no," you are good to go. If not, a chap by the handle of Mtgun44 wrote an excellent sticky on how to make good 9 mm cast boolit ammo. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...s-in-a-new-9mm
    It is in the wheelguns, pistols and handcannons forum. Read that and forget about spending a bunch of money for something you are just going to shoot away.

    The only thing I would suggest in the nature of alloy is to go to your local Good Will store, find some pewter; a cup, a tankard, a goblet, a salt and pepper shaker set, something that runs 4-8 ounces, maybe a plate or platter that runs 10-18 ounces. Mix 4-10 ounces of that in your 25 pounds of reclaimed bullet metal and if you don't get useful bullet, I'll be amazed.
    Last edited by rintinglen; 03-07-2021 at 12:53 PM.
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  20. #40
    Boolit Master chutesnreloads's Avatar
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    Rintinglen gave you some great advice. There is NO substitute for homework.
    Before spending any more money, read, read, read.
    The stickies here alone are worth a lot of time.
    Another great suggestion was reading Glenn Fryxel's "From Ingot to Target". I believe there
    is a link to it in the stickies. You can read it for free

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BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
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