Cimarron Schofield

[sharps4590]

For my birthday my wonderful wife suggested I get the Schofield I'd been mulling over for about a year. So I ordered one in 44-40 to go with my Cimarron '73 Winchester clone. I picked it up today and am casting about for a smokeless load. I don't have any 45 Schofield data and haven't looked for any but, I do have 44 Russian I'm a'thinkin' I can use that data just fine unless....someone has some 44-40 data that's within the pressure limit of the Schofield. I thought I had some 44-40 data for low pressure loads, less than 13K but, evidently I dreamed that. I'll also be shooting quite a bit of BP in it as well. Any recommendations?

[Prairie Cowboy]

My Lyman 48th Reloading manual lists these Group 1 loads for revolvers:

200 grain lead bullet (Lyman 427666)

6.9 grains Unique / 853 FPS / 6,700 CUP (1056 FPS rifle)

13.0 grains 2400 / 885 FPS / 7,900 CUP (1035 FPS rifle)

These are the low-end loads which are probably most suitable for a weaker break-open.

[sharps4590]

Well thank you Prairie!! That has to be where I saw them. I was certain I saw them in one of my books....good grief....it's sometimes embarrassing to get old.

[Dan Cash]

Unless the .44-40 version of these revolvers has a different gas ring configuration than the .45 Colt versions, black powder won't work very well. You will get 6 to 12 shots off before the cylinder binds up from fouling. As a smokeless revolver, you have a dandy.

[sharps4590]

Ha...This morning I turned right to those loads, Prairie. I slugged the bore and measured the cylinder mouth's this morning. I think I found at least part of the reason for lack of accuracy, bullet fit....imagine that. Might need a new bullet mold.

Dan, I've seen that mentioned before and I'm ignorant of the term. Is it the barrel/cylinder gap?

[Prairie Cowboy]

You could try the Lee 429-200-RF mold.

These drop out of mine such that I was able to size them to a uniform .430" with a Lee push-through sizer die. My alloy was about wheel weight hard.

If your bore is .429" they should work well.

[one-eyed fat man]

Is it the barrel/cylinder gap?

The gas ring or gas collar on this black powder era Iver Johnson is circled in red.



The other feature on ORIGINAL S&W Third models is the barrel cylinder being "staggered" Here are two photos of the barrel/cylinder gap area on a New Model #3, from two slightly different angles. Notice how much space there is between the front of the cylinder and the frame. Notice how the barrel/cylinder gap is offset from the front of the gas collar. The last photo shows the relationship of the cylinder to the arbor it spins around. The arbor has helical grooves milled around it very similar to the grooves on a Colt style C&B revolver. These grooves provide a place for fouling to build up without causing the cylinder to bind as it rotates.



Looking at a closeup of the same area on an Uberti Schofield. Notice how much less space there is in front of the cylinder. Unlike the either the Iver Johnson or S&W Third Model notice how the barrel/cylinder gap is almost in the same plane as the front of the gas ring. All the fouling has a nearly direct path into the rotating bits. You can lay that back at the feet of making the cylinder long enough to accept .45 Colt. If they cut it back to accept only Schofield cartridges they could restore the offset.



Either of the original black powder era guns will easily fire a 50 or a 100 rounds of black powder ammo without the cylinder tying up. The Uberti might do a dozen if you grease the arbor like crazy and are lucky.

[Dan Cash]

Sharps,
Dan, I've seen that mentioned before and I'm ignorant of the term. Is it the barrel/cylinder gap?


In the case of my .45 Schofield copy, the problem is gas and crud blowing back into the base pin hole. The original Schofield had a shorter cylinder with a bushing or extension of the cylinder cut to deflect the blast and protect the base pin. Uberti lengthened the cylinder to get length for 45 Colt. This puts the cylinder face directly over the gap between the base pin bushing. No problem with smokeless but terrible with BP.

The Fat Man explains it far better than I.

[Walks]

BP is a nightmare in a Uberti Schofield.
PLEASE Don't try it.

For Smokeless I've mainly used one load for years; 225gr FP over 6.6grs of Unique. Light and Accurate. And it shouldn't blow open the latch on your Revolver. Although I've never had it happen to me, nor have I witnessed it happen at any Cowboy Shoot I ever attended.
I've shot a few 1,000 equivalent loads in My .45Colt Uberti Schofield of 225gr TC over 6.6grs of Unique with never a problem.
For a lighter bullet I would recommend a 200-210gr over 7.0grs Unique or 5.5grs of Titegroup. Also 4.5grs of Clays.

Another note;
I've read of many people having the latches on their Schofields "pop" open when shooting Cowboy Loads. I have never experienced this with My Revolver. Perhaps it is because I have one of the very early ones made by Uberti.
In fact I've shot the full power Colt load of 9.0grs of Unique under a 255gr Lyman #454190 cast of 20-1, lubed with 50/50 and sized .454dia

[sharps4590]

Ahhh...ok. Now I know, thanks to both of you. Seems there is always a trade off when the original is deviated from. Sometimes it's a good trade....sometimes it isn't.

Walks, what makes it such a nightmare, getting it clean afterward or the inability to shoot more than a couple cylinders?

Prairie, that's the bullet I'm shooting. The barrel does slug .429, cylinder mouths are uniformly .434.