Water quenching cast bullets

[popper]

As they solidify the antimony becomes less soluble in lead Partially correct. As the MIXTURE cools, layers of Sb rich/SB lean MIXTURES are created. Water dropping makes these layers very thin. Think of a block of sugar cubes (Pb). Lead 'moves' by sliding action between the cubes. Put a larger or smaller cube in the pile and force required for sliding increases. The 'alien' cube can be sulfur, arsenic, copper,antimony, calcium, zinc, tin and some others. When 'molton' the cubes move around. When cooling (or cold) they still move, just not as much. The alien cubes can accumulate in one spot (weaker/softer). There are a few ALLOYS that can form from the aliens, none are lead! Yea, tellurium, cadmium and some others will ALLOY with lead but we have no use for them. Contrary to popular belief, SbSn is NOT an end alloy - it may be formed during cooling but falls apart before solid is reached - except in special lab conditions. Sulfur and copper do stay in alloy but sulfur 'leaches' out on subsequent heating/cooling cycles. Of course lead oxide (as well as tin and Sb oxides) require FLUXING to remove the oxide - carbonation. Work SOFTENING of lead is a relatively slow process so sizing or shooting has minor effect. Hit you PB/Sn/Sb bullets hard with a heavy hammer. Gets hot but not deformed much. Let cool, next blow it will deform more (softer).

[Conditor22]

The hardness you get from quenching will depend on the alloy

antimony and arsenic have much to do with this.

[MaxJon]

I'm not really, just wondered if it will make them harder again.

[sutherpride59]

Lead-antimony alloys with low to moderate amounts of antimony can be precipitation hardened. As they solidify the antimony becomes less soluble in lead, and precipitates out. Antimony precipitating into a matrix of solidified lead stresses the crystal matrix of the lead. The prestressed lead is harder than unstressed lead. Because lead is subject to creep, or stress-relaxation over time, the hardening process reverses itself very slowly.

When you size a bullet the alloy has to flow into a new shape of smaller diameter. Depending on the amount of sizing and the bullet design, some of this deformation happens close to the surface, especially through lead flowing into the lube grooves. However the bullet also becomes longer - a process which deforms the alloy all the way to the center. Deforming prestressed lead relaxes the prestress and makes the bullet soft wherever it was deformed. So, if you just size a heat treated bullet without lubing it first, the deformation is concentrated close to the driving bands, which deform into the lube grooves. If you lube the bullet first, the lube grooves become just about incompressible and the deformation reaches deeper into the bullet. Thus heat treatment benefit is largely lost if you size the bullet after it has hardened. (But remember it takes days to weeks for the precipitation to occur after quenching, so you can lube after quenching so long as you do it within say 2 to 4 hours.)

Please believe I’m not saying you are wrong but if this is completely true then how is it that I can cast and heat treat hard bullets then the next day file the bullet and hit it with my lee tester and get a significant hardness such as 28bhn? Wouldn’t filing the bullet soften the metal that I am testing? Wouldn’t I be testing metal that isn’t impacted by the precipitation effect? Also if sizing sizes the surface of the metal wouldn’t it only be a super thin layer that wouldn’t even matter. If you size to 309 and your barrel is .308 then that metal that engages the rifling would be metal that hasn’t even been work softened yet.

[44MAG#1]

Water quenched bullets are not case hardened period. They are through hardened period. Scientific thought and eloquent speak is fine but one must understand that when the bullet is Quenched properly they are through hardened. And mighty hard they will become when PROPERLY QUENCHED and tough provided the Antimony content isn't too high.
Sized bullets will still crack, bust, burst or wreck a 22 BHN bullet provided the Wheelweight bullets are PROPERLY QUENCHED. A case hardened bullet would not do that. Also a hardness test on the center of the bullet will show through hardness.
This is a case where actual experience comes into play.

Please believe I’m not saying you are wrong but if this is completely true then how is it that I can cast and heat treat hard bullets then the next day file the bullet and hit it with my lee tester and get a significant hardness such as 28bhn? Wouldn’t filing the bullet soften the metal that I am testing? Wouldn’t I be testing metal that isn’t impacted by the precipitation effect? Also if sizing sizes the surface of the metal wouldn’t it only be a super thin layer that wouldn’t even matter. If you size to 309 and your barrel is .308 then that metal that engages the rifling would be metal that hasn’t even been work softened yet.

[Shiloh]

Wet boolits are cold bullets. Cold bullets don't burn you.

Shiloh

[MaxJon]

Water quenched bullets are not case hardened period. They are through hardened period. Scientific thought and eloquent speak is fine but one must understand that when the bullet is Quenched properly they are through hardened. And mighty hard they will become when PROPERLY QUENCHED and tough provided the Antimony content isn't too high.
Sized bullets will still crack, bust, burst or wreck a 22 BHN bullet provided the Wheelweight bullets are PROPERLY QUENCHED. A case hardened bullet would not do that. Also a hardness test on the center of the bullet will show through hardness.
This is a case where actual experience comes into play.

Agree 100%

[Texas by God]

Right or wrong, I never water quench my cast bullets. I have not found a need.

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[tazman]

Wet boolits are cold bullets. Cold bullets don't burn you.

Shiloh

This^^^^^^^^
The extra hardness is a nice side effect.

[44MAG#1]

Right or wrong, I never water quench my cast bullets. I have not found a need.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

You are neither wrong or right. You so what you want to do. Everyone else does the same.

[lotech]

It certainly hurts nothing to experiment with water quenching (and oven heat-treating). I used to do both some years ago, but realized I needed nothing harder than 12-13 BHN air-cooled wheelweight alloy for all my casting needs, rifle and handgun. We all have different requirements and water quenching may prove advantageous for some. Just be sure to do a side-by-side comparison using quenched and unquenched bullets to verify the benefit of the process.