1873 black powder load suggestions please.

[jarhead jim]

I am in the process of restoring a 4 digit serial number 1873 Winchester in 44-40 cal. Have to re line the barrel and the dia is .428 and twist is 1 in 24. Assuming I need a .429 mold for this and pure lead boolets? Going with black powder of course since that’s what it was designed for and I love the smoke.... Any favorite loads out there? Lube? Hunted with a side lock .54 Hawken and double barrel 11 gauge shotgun all my adult life but this cartridge stuff is new to me. Thanks in advance!

Jim

[Castaway]

Not pure lead but 16:1, lead to tin, will duplicate Winchester’s alloy. If no tin is on hand, I mix thrift shop pewter as if it’s 100% (actual about 91%). Gato Feo #1 lube has a good reputation for black powder and even low velocity smokeless loads. By weight, 2 parts mutton tallow, 2 parts paraffin and 1 part beeswax. Many other recipes are out there if you can’t find mutton tallow. Good thing about Gato Feo’s lube is it tends not to run in Florida heat and also works well in cold weather. With a drop tube, you’ll probably get around 37 grains of 3f powder in the case and will still have to compress it to seat your bullet. You may be able to do final compression with the bullet if you find you don’t bulge the case too much to chamber. If the case buldges,a dowel rod can be adjusted to use with your seating die

[jarhead jim]

Castaway, What ratio of lead to tin is wheel weight lead? I have a little over a ton of it.

Jim

[Castaway]

It varies but much more antimony than tin. All is not lost, wheel weights make great bullets for smokeless loads, plinking or hunting

[mack1]

WW will be hard but 50/50 pure lead t0 WW may work but tends to harden over time. I use 36gr of Old E 2f in mine. 2 parts beeswax and 1part neatsfoot oil and one part Murphy's oil works well for me. I would start with 34gr or so and increase the load watching the fouling for amount and hardness to get a load that can fire multiple shots accurately.
If you search for My 44-40 Black Powder journey thread by w30wcf you will have much faster success.

[indian joe]

Jim
put the horse at the front of the cart mate -- first order of business here is get a mold that gives you a boolit with decent lube rooves - the RCBS cowboy is ok, nothing less though - there are hundreds of pet lube recipies - most of em work - but none of em do if the quantity is lacking - skinny little smokeless lube grooves flat out dont work for blackpowder shooting. Get that right and everything else falls into place easily

[DaveM]

According to Winchester catalogs of the 19th Century, bullets for .44-40 were made from pure lead. 1:16 alloy was used for other cartridges.

In .44-40, I get excellent results using the following load:

-Bullet cast in an Accurate Molds 43-215C, designed by John Kort. If cast from 1:20 alloy, it drops at 219 grains. It carries plenty of lube for use with Goex in a 24" barrel. I lubed with 50/50 beeswax/mutton tallow.
-2.2cc (~35 grains) of 3Fg black powder. Preferably Swiss because it's more energetic than Goex and burns more cleanly.
-Federal or CCI large pistol primer.
-Starline brass.

In my Cimarron 1873 Sporting Rifle with 24" barrel, that load averages a bit over 1300 FPS and groups under 2" at 50 yards (which is as good as I can shoot with irons).

[Castaway]

Dave, you’re right about the pure lead bullet. I “assumed” based on other cartridges.

[jarhead jim]

Unfortunately with Biden in office (arguably fraudulently.....) there has been another surge of “let’s buy everything gun related on the planet” and none of the molds aforementioned are available to be had. I’ll just have to settle with what I can find for now and hope it works. And like Dave mentioned, the early Winchester catalogs advertised pure lead for this particular round. As for black powder, where I live in the sticks, I just have to settle for Pachyderm or Gotex.... Crap, just looked and all mine are 2f... suppose that’s too slow burning for good results?

Jim

[mack1]

Tom at accurate molds has always came through for me you may give him a chance. Also Powder Inc will ship Black.

[Tar Heel]

I use 20:1 binary alloy and a full case (to bottom of seated bullet) of FFG with ever-so-slight compression. I shoot the Lee 429200 bullet with SPG lube.

[jarhead jim]

I use 20:1 binary alloy and a full case (to bottom of seated bullet) of FFG with ever-so-slight compression. I shoot the Lee 429200 bullet with SPG lube.

Glad someone has success with the 2f because I have a bunch of that. That’s the bullet I’m looking at too. Semper Fi.

Jim

[jarhead jim]

Tom at accurate molds has always came through for me you may give him a chance. Also Powder Inc will ship Black.

I’ll check there for a mold. Thanks!

Jim

[Tar Heel]

I’ll check there for a mold. Thanks!

I have been lusting for the Accurate mold referenced but the darn Lee mold is working fine even with the BP and SPG. Eventually I will get the Accurate mold for the 44-40. I have one for the 38-40 and love it. I would suggest just getting the Accurate Mold if Tom is not swamped. If he has a long backlog, perhaps the Lee mold is available and will do in a pinch.

[Tar Heel]

Glad someone has success with the 2f because I have a bunch of that. That’s the bullet I’m looking at too. Semper Fi.

The FFG works fine and in fact, shoots a cloverleaf at 50 yards in an ORIGINAL Winchester 92 in .44-40 sent to London in the war years. I could not believe it. Like you, I was trained to shoot by the Corps.

Attachment 278720 Attachment 278721 Attachment 278722 Attachment 278723

[jarhead jim]

The FFG works fine and in fact, shoots a cloverleaf at 50 yards in an ORIGINAL Winchester 92 in .44-40 sent to London in the war years. I could not believe it. Like you, I was trained to shoot by the Corps.

Attachment 278720 Attachment 278721 Attachment 278722 Attachment 278723

That’s some neat history there! And damn good shootin.....

Jim

[Dave T]

My 44 WCF load is 36g of FFg OE. Bullet is a BigLube 200g cast of 1-20 alloy and lubed with SPG. Haven't chronographed it or put it on paper but it rings a 6X10 plate at ~50 yards every time I don't flinch or my aging eyes don't go out of focus. I was still hitting it with the last of 20 rounds fired on the first outing. It's a new gun (24" rifle by Miroku for Winchester) so I'm still getting used to it. I see no reason to change the load as it shoots as good or better than I can see and hold.

Dave

[Tar Heel]

My 44 WCF load is 36g of FFg OE. Bullet is a BigLube 200g cast of 1-20 alloy and lubed with SPG. Haven't chronographed it or put it on paper but it rings a 6X10 plate at ~50 yards every time I don't flinch or my aging eyes don't go out of focus. I was still hitting it with the last of 20 rounds fired on the first outing. It's a new gun (24" rifle by Miroku for Winchester) so I'm still getting used to it. I see no reason to change the load as it shoots as good or better than I can see and hold.

Dave

If it aint broke, don't fix it!

Those Miroku rifles are quite nice. You have the 1873 or some other one?

[Dave T]

Tar Heel,

I have the standard 1873 rifle with the 24" barrel. It has a case color receiver, which I am not all that keen on as originally Winchester '73s came blued. I bought it because the wood looks more like old walnut than the usual wood finish from Japan. I was looking for a Miroku carbine in 44 WCF when I came across this one. Glad I bought it as I still haven't found a carbine.

Dave

[LIMPINGJ]

Lots of information on the 44WCF cartridge by member Savvy Jack here. https://sites.google.com/view/44winc...-40-Winchester