Primer making plates

[Sleeping Dog]

Has anyone made primer loading plates as described by, "The Poor Man's Primer Manual" by George B. Dmitrieff. Or does anyone know of someone who has done this?

(btw - Is his book public domain now or is he claiming rights?)

I've been 3D printing parts to allow some faster/easier making of primers, but it would be much better to have them done in stainless/brass with a CNC.

[MUSTANG]

I have been thinking about it. Unfortunately; like many other things one deliberates on - moths or years can pass before one finds that Round-Tuit.

Closest I have come so far is in my reloading primers testing with Prime-All (see thread: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...sting-Results)

As part of that effort - converting a plastic primer tray for loading a single primer at a time. (Click on below for picture).

Attachment 276800

Making the plates for me requires:

(1) Experimentation and validation until I have a cost effective and Reliable Primer Reloading accomplished.
(2) Designing a suitable plate for Lower Production rates (Not looking into a business).
(3) Locating a suitable shop that can make a "Hobbyist" Plate set up for SP/LP/SR/LR.
(4) Perhaps developing punches and ...... for making new primer cups.
(5) and #4 above for anvils.

Currently Loading Pistol and Rifle Brass for Spring/Summer/Fall shooting so the Primer issue is on hold for a bit.

[rancher1913]

I would love one that holds the primers tightly so you could squeegee the compound into the primers with no mess. I have seen video of the commercial guys doing it that way.

[MUSTANG]

I would love one that holds the primers tightly so you could squeegee the compound into the primers with no mess. I have seen video of the commercial guys doing it that way.

I guess I am part of the Mea Too generation on this one.

My efforts with the plastic tray work; but could not find a drill bit that allowed a Tight - but able to remove fit for the primer cup. Probably could have drilled under size and reamed; but the focus was on reloading primers for testing - not building a "great Tool". at the time.

[Alferd Packer]

Wondering why someone doesn't get a plan to start a company to pay CCI or federal to make primers for a set of American Investors willing to start up a Company to sell the primers in the U S A.
All legal and above board .Enough investors should interest one of the Companies with the know how to start a business maybe in Canada and ship the primers here for sale.
Any takers.Ideas?
Maybe Donald Trump could make a few Millions doing this?

[Rcmaveric]

We have gas check dies. Why has no one created primer dies?

Punch out a bunch cups and anvils. 3D print a tray to them.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

[Sleeping Dog]

22LR Sharpshooter says that he is working on a die for cups (not anvils) and it should be ready in a week or two (that was last week).

I've made some primer cup holders (3D print) that I've been using. They work nicely. They let you put the cups in, hold the cups in place while you push around the primer compound, then tuck the compound away while you do the rest of the work. I have a few designs, but this is one of the better ones. I do wish I had a hold on the right side behind the "blast shield" to fully remove the extra primer compound.

[MUSTANG]

I like the looks and configurations of the tray as a means of upping production throughput. It appears that the primer edges are Slightly above the edge of the tray bottom which would preclude using a flat plastic Putty Knife, scraper, spatula to drag/push the Primer material over the top and across to the "excess" area.

How does one "Eject" the loaded primers after being packed? Push each through the bottom of the tray with a chop stick; or..?

[perotter]

I've made partial sets about 10 years ago. Small and large for me. And large for another guy(cups and anvils only). I did these with my CNC mill and held 25 to 100 primers.

But never a full set(s). Just to hold the cups, the anvils and a wet mix. Nor ever made the ones to hold the pins. I've always had primers, but find testing primer mixes more interesting than testing if 4.5 grains of powder is better than 4.3 grains(etc).

I only ever reloaded a couple of primers before making a plate that would hold 5 to 10 primers. Done with a hand drill. I used the next sized bigger drill bit for the holes. Also is really easy to 'book' the plates to put all of the anvils above the cups at one time.

I've used both aluminium and steel. Cheap enough and easy enough to make that I don't understand why one would do more than 5 primers without making something to hold at least a few.

Now that it looks like maybe DIY may be needed at least from time to time. I'm going to make up 2 full production sets when I get my shop set back up. A lot of work and parts go into a full set and would be very expensive to the end user. Given the limited market.

ps.

I don't think I'd use plastic. I'd worry about it being a bit porous and allow compound to stay in them. Likely an unwarranted worry if one washed them after use like is supposed to be done, but I'd still worry. Seems the older I get, the more I worry about mistakes. If I'd have worried this much when I was young, I'd have never done much or had any fun. Anyone and everyone is free to decide for themselves.

[Doughty]

I have recently been musing on this problem. I made a gauging tool to separate large rifle from large pistol cups. The large rifle I measured ranged from .117 to .121, about the thickness of a piece of printer paper. If the plate was made for .117 the .121s would protrude and might cause a squeegee to hang up. If made for the .121 some cups would be overfilled. I leaning towards the protruding cups and a squeegee of some type that could accommodate the varying cup heights??

Then a removeable bottom plate so that finished primers could be pushed out the bottom.

Since I have machine tools and no 3-D printer I tend to think of metals before plastics. Right now I am thinking that a harder grade (7***) of aluminum might be the best material to make these out of?? but wouldn't rule out something like delrin or an acrylic??

[Doughty]

perotter, could you expound on "Also is really easy to 'book' the plates to put all of the anvils above the cups at one time."

[Doughty]

SleepingDog, The Poor Man's Primer Manual is available here: https://b-ok.cc/book/1263137/7d4b5b

[perotter]

perotter, could you expound on "Also is really easy to 'book' the plates to put all of the anvils above the cups at one time."

Like a book that is opened to the middle and setting on a table. Then closing the book by moving the 2 covers together in unison. So that the front cover and the back cover are at a 90 degree angle to the table at the same time.

The two plate are set beside each other handled handled in the same manner. Each row meets the matching row in it's opposite plate before the angle gets to great for the cup or anvil to fall out. I think when a shaker is used the anvil are bottom side up. So then this method is used to get them bottom side down.

It seems that in factories they use a frame that has hinges for the plates and use small air cylinders to book them together. Save time and eliminates error.

As a side note, but as to something you mentioned. All my plates were thicker than what any primer cup was high. The amount of compound difference when done with a dry mix didn't seem to be enough to matter. And with a wet mix the amount isn't based on what the cup holds. I guess if a person was making their own cups the cup height could be controlled.

Personally if I do set up to do large amounts, I will do so in a manner that does include any automation I can.

[Doughty]

Thanks, that's what I was guessing, but wasn't sure.

[MUSTANG]

This thread is getting more interesting and more interesting

(acknowledgment to Lewis Carrol ( his Curiouser and Curiouser line).

[hiram]

PDF


https://ia800905.us.archive.org/21/i...%20environment.

[perotter]

Thanks, that's what I was guessing, but wasn't sure.

Your welcome. If you make a set, I hope you post about it. I'm sure all of us would learn something.

[Doughty]

I hope to make something. Don't know if it will be a full set. Or when. I had a hip replacement 2 weeks ago and am scheduled to have a shoulder replaced in about a month.

I did try a little test yesterday. i had some .125 thick aluminum. I drilled a #3 hole in it and then reamed that with a 7/32 reamer leaving a nice .219 hole. I could easily drop a large rifle cup in. The cups measured .210 to .211 diameter and were .119 to .120 tall. I filled the cup to over flowing with some H-48 powder. I then squeegeed the excess off with the straight edge of a business card. This left a layer of powder about .005 above the cup and about .008 wider than the cup.

The cups I have will accept a .187 pin into them. I had made a compacting tool out of plastic that was turned and polished to .177 diameter. When I have used this tool to compact powder into cups that have been filled flush, it works very well. When I used it to try to compact powder into the overfilled cups, it would start and then hang up some. By twisting it a little it would complete the compaction, but I could not withdraw it without lifting the cup out of the hole. I either had to hold the cup in the hole with another tool or by angling the cup over so that it was some what jammed and then twisting.

The excess grains of the very fine H-48 were being pulled into the small gap between tool and cup and causing it to bind up.

I tried putting the paper foil on before attempting to compact and had similar results as without it.

I don't like the twisting to get the tool in and out. Might be safe, but I don't like it, plus it slows things down.

So, what to do? I can turn the tool diameter down to where it won't stick, but don't know if it will still compact okay. I can make a thinner plate so that all the cup rims protrude and then see if they can be squeegeed off adequately. I then see a problem of moving away the excess powder between cups. Possibly could sort cups by height and make multiple plates of different thicknesses. Also reduce the diameter of the holes so the cups fit tighter. This would require a custom reamer or the use of a boring bar.

What fun! Just right for all those that enjoy casting bullets and putting gas checks on .22s. Economical too. I bought a pound each of the potassium chlorate, antimony trisulfide, and sulfur. With shipping, just under $50. The H-48 powder requires 17 grains of potassium chlorate to make about 33 grains of H-48 powder. This is supposed to be enough powder to load about 60 large rifle primers. So, 7000 divided by 17 equals 411 batches times 60 equals about 24,700 primers. Of course there is left over antimony trisulfide and sulfur, so if you got 2 pounds of potassium chlorate you could get 49,400 primers. What a deal!

[perotter]

Thanks for the update. I'm laid up myself. Happened while moving my shop, reloading area and lab area 5 months ago. So I haven't been able to do anything fun aside from studying. But I think this week end I'll be able to start moving the shop equipment again. When I got hurt some in the old and some of it in the new, but none in either area really usable. But likely if I hadn't gotten hurt I wouldn't have had a look at this again.

A possible solution and what I did was having an indexed plate to go over the cup plate. The difference in the top plate is the holes matches the OD of the anvil and the bit bigger than the pin. That way the cup doesn't come out when the pin is pulled up.

Personally I drill thru several layers raw plates with a 1/8 drill starting out and include indexing holes. Then drill each plate needed to the size needed. Pros and cons to doing that way.

One surely can't complain about the price.