"It Finally Happened to Me"

[rfd]

I understand, but the 4 rules of firearm safety are:

1) Treat every firearm as if it were loaded.
2) Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire.
3) Never point a firearm at anything you do not wish to destroy.
4) Always be sure of your target and what lies beyond it.

It's up to each person to decide which rules to follow or not.

Steve

Who made those "hard fast" rules and why?

BDTB is a SAFETY MEASURE for intelligent, coherent, focused shooters. It MAY not be a smart thing for newbie, lackadaisical, or stupid shooters to entertain. One set of global rules for the stupids at the expense of the smarties. Just ever expanding politically correct rules for all, no matter what.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Are these the 4 commandments ? I have a set of rules of my own as I am an adult , another reason I prefer to shoot with friends and other experienced shooters unless teaching someone to shoot , then it is watch and learn and this is why you do this and you do not do that .

When blowing down a muzzle loader it has just been fired and you have not had time or set it down somewhere where someone or some entity unknown to you has snuck a charge down the barrel , when blowing your hands are nowhere near the trigger , I guess if you took your shoes off your toe could be there , and along with the phantom charge would be a bad day .

Well you do your thing , I will do mine and the world still turns and my rifles fouling is still softer and easier to load .

I have not double balled a gun , handing caps to someone who is out reminds me of a young man years ago asking for a cap when I had already told him to have them ready and how to keep one quick to hand Lack of planning on his part did not constitute an emergency on mine hey buddy could you spare a dime I do not feel like working so maybe you could go to work and give to me .

[maillemaker]

Who made those "hard fast" rules and why?

No idea, but my dad taught them to me 40 years ago.

Anyway, like I said, everyone has to make their own grown-up decisions about safety.

If you're comfortable pointing your gun at your head, that's fine by me.

Steve

[maillemaker]

By the way, out of curiosity I googled who invented the 4 rules of firearm safety and the answer is Jeff Cooper (1920-2006).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_safety

Other organizations offer similar rules.

[rfd]

Yes, Jeff Cooper. Rules are guidelines for people to employ and observe with common sense. If one were to consider the 4 rules of firearms as absolute commandments, would they be right or wrong during the loading of any muzzleloader, where hands/fingers will linger in front of the muzzle? Or is that an exception to the firearms rules simply because there is no other way to get powder and ball into the tube without breaking Jeff's rules?

I think most rational people will understand the common sense need to modify Jeff's rules when it comes to muzzleloaders. Adding in BDTB is a clear and precise safety measure that's steeped in common sense. Do what y'all will, but there is no way I'm going to pour powder down the tube of a just-fired muzzy unless I'm sure the bbl is safe from igniting said powder.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Ah Jeff Cooper , did he not make a comment about the ar-15 being a poodle shooter , but in another photo I saw it shows him with a mini-14 funny how that works , Jeff Cooper was a legend and I enjoyed most of his writing even if not agreeing with all of it .

My hands are in front when pouring powder and when placing ball and while ramming the load home , guess I violate rules where and when I see fit , I know shame on me .

This is where common sense and experience come into play , I try to pack light when going afield and that is part of the enjoyment of muzzle loaders , a little closer to old times and simplicity .

We should all practice safety and common sense while we enjoy our hobby , I am not advocating anyone should change their own method of loading and shooting , that is your own concern , and since I shoot away from people as much as possible it makes no never mind to me .

[charlie b]

I would still rather use a tube to blow down the barrel.

[freakonaleash]

Great argument. Can I get in now? Or is it too late.

[rfd]

What argument?

[waksupi]

Ah Jeff Cooper , did he not make a comment about the ar-15 being a poodle shooter , but in another photo I saw it shows him with a mini-14 funny how that works , Jeff Cooper was a legend and I enjoyed most of his writing even if not agreeing with all of it .

My hands are in front when pouring powder and when placing ball and while ramming the load home , guess I violate rules where and when I see fit , I know shame on me .

This is where common sense and experience come into play , I try to pack light when going afield and that is part of the enjoyment of muzzle loaders , a little closer to old times and simplicity .

We should all practice safety and common sense while we enjoy our hobby , I am not advocating anyone should change their own method of loading and shooting , that is your own concern , and since I shoot away from people as much as possible it makes no never mind to me .

Sometimes you may just have to shoot a poodle!

[Mmacro]

What’s the feeling on fouling shot followed up by a ramrod and dry patch? That should also work to extinguish any smoldering embers.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Shot a coyote once with a muzzle loader , dropped like a rock , was a 50 caliber though .

[Capn Jack]

I have four, 20 pound tanks of propane for my grills and heaters in my garage. You want to talk about an explosive possibility!

You summed it up right there. "Possibility"

[longbow]

I can agree that it is safer in principle to use the rubber hose idea for blowing down the barrel after each shot. I believe that blowing down the barrel directly, or with rubber hose, until no smoke is seen escaping nipple or flash hole proves there is nothing still burning down there. Necessary or not as you say is up to each shooter and whether shoot rules, if you are at a shoot, allows blowing down the barrel directly or not. But as far as safety goes does no-one ever look down the bore when cleaning the gun? Do you not put your hand in front of the muzzle when ramming a ball? I realize a shot to the hand is not deadly like a shot to the head or body but still, safety is safety.

If you have forgotten if you put powder in or rammed a ball down the bore then just drop your ramrod in and check level. Simple to prove the gun is empty or not. If not then don't go putting body parts in front of the muzzle!

Same applies to breech loader... do you look down the bore after cleaning?

If you are proving the gun is safe before placing body parts in front of the bore there should be no issue.

My opinion for what it is worth.

Longbow

[dtknowles]

The four rules, like most rules have exceptions.

1) Treat every firearm as if it were loaded.
2) Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire.
3) Never point a firearm at anything you do not wish to destroy.
4) Always be sure of your target and what lies beyond it.

Some times the exceptions are common sense, like when cleaning a gun. Other times they are willful risk taking.

Life involves risks and judgement calls. I will still load from flasks with measuring spouts. Is there a risk, sure, I think that risk is vanishingly small. While I can imagine loading a cap and ball revolver some other way, I would only do it some other way because I did not have a proper measuring spout.

I think the rules are actually very good. If you were properly taught them then it makes you think twice before you break them, take exception to them.

Tim

[indian joe]

What’s the feeling on fouling shot followed up by a ramrod and dry patch? That should also work to extinguish any smoldering embers.

mmmmmm good way to push a bunch of crud down to the powder channel and initiate a hangfire or fail to fire next shot

Also - what do you fellers see as a fouling shot ??

mine is (always) a full load fired into the mound - I dont clean between shots and I want that first one on target to go the same place as all the others - dont see any point at all in setting off a loose powder charge to foul the barrel ?

[rfd]

Fouling control, if need be, will also depend on the type of breech plug. Running a bore sized patched jag down the tube will push crud into those offshore patent breech plugs, which will require running a patched smallbore brush into the ante-chamber. Anyway ya look at it, at the very least there's gonna be fingers and hands lingering over that deadly open muzzle. I'm scared ... not.

[waksupi]

mmmmmm good way to push a bunch of crud down to the powder channel and initiate a hangfire or fail to fire next shot

Also - what do you fellers see as a fouling shot ??

mine is (always) a full load fired into the mound - I dont clean between shots and I want that first one on target to go the same place as all the others - dont see any point at all in setting off a loose powder charge to foul the barrel ?

I do find my guns shoot a bit better after a fouling shot.

[CTI1USNRET]

You got me to thinking. I use this to run water from the sink through my trumpet. I'm going to get another and put it in my BP kit. I'll use it with my 54 cal Lyman GPR. It fits down the barrel.

Thanks for sharing your experience and glad you're OK.

[charlie b]

mmmmmm good way to push a bunch of crud down to the powder channel and initiate a hangfire or fail to fire next shot

Also - what do you fellers see as a fouling shot ??

mine is (always) a full load fired into the mound - I dont clean between shots and I want that first one on target to go the same place as all the others - dont see any point at all in setting off a loose powder charge to foul the barrel ?

Yes, a fouling shot is a full power load, or near that. You want the pressure build up so you get more efficient burning of the charge.

Throwing just some powder in the bore and setting it off (even with a wad) does not 'foul' the bore, it just makes a mess